Morning Ireland interviews with three people facing difficulty getting on the housing ladder

Gordon Gekko said:
Having 5 kids and one’s housing requirements are kind of related, no?
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Apparently Brendan is paying for them so it shouldn't be a factor...

Gordon Gekko said:
So only a fool would go on the airwaves and say “look at me, I have 5 kids, and I’m struggling to find a suitable home in the area I want”.
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Ah here! She clearly said in the piece that there is a suitable vacant property in the area, that they wont accept an offer on.


Strategically vacant property, artificially inflating market prices in a supply crisis - No comment

5 kids in the family - Too bad, move to Leitrim
 
Itchy said:
Apparently Brendan is paying for them so it shouldn't be a factor...
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Well he is. Single people on high incomes pay for most things in this country. I've 4 kids; thanks Brendan!
Itchy said:
Ah here! She clearly said in the piece that there is a suitable vacant property in the area, that they wont accept an offer on.


Strategically vacant property, artificially inflating market prices in a supply crisis - No comment
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Yes, that's a problem. The owner should be taxed each year that they are empty. Maybe a 10% rate would get the houses on the market.
Itchy said:
5 kids in the family - Too bad, move to Leitrim
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Or Bray, or an available suitable house a 5 minute drive away. Leitrim is a bit far, although there's no shortage of grey stones there.
 
Why should an offer be accepted?

Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?

Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.
 
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The Horseman said:
Why should an offer be accepted?

Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?
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Totally different thing. The value of a house is as much a reflection of government policy as anything else.

The Horseman said:
Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.
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Housing is more than just a private business. There is a public good aspect to the provision of housing.
We use the taxation system for social engineering all the time. The developer doesn't have to sell the property but we should use that taxation system to encourage them to do so.
 
It's not a totally different thing. You want to force the other party to accept your condition. Why should one party be treated more favourably than the other. Both parties should be free to agree a deal that both are happy with.

Housing in the private market is a private business. We may use the taxation system for social good but it should not be so punitive for those who actually take the risk to provide for themselves.

If the value of developers property fell below the price to cover his costs and make no profit at all would you be in favour of giving him a profit from State funds?
 
The Horseman said:
Why should an offer be accepted?

Should you be able to go to you employer and expect them to accept your offer of what you want as a wage?

Private property is a business pure and simple. I find it amazing people can't understand this concept.
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I'm not saying any offer should be accepted, I'm not saying her offer should be accepted. I am saying speculative land hoarding is driving up market prices having a real impact on peoples lives. This is the issue, not the number of lattes they drink or what class their kids are in. Everyone has to cut their cloth, I think everyone acknowledges that.

In another thread you acknowledge a lack of supply but you don't think vacant properties are factor or part of a solution? Private property rights are absolute?

Property is a business, but you cant build what you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. There have always been conditions of use.
 
Hi Itchy

Here is the actual piece

Housing For All plan to be launched today

Amy Ní Riada speaks to those eagerly awaiting the details of the government's Housing For All plan.
www.rte.ie

Grace lives in Tralee is 26 and has been on the social housing list for 7 years. "I have been told by professional people to whom I went for advice, I would be better off if I quite my job, went on the dole, went away and had a child, alone . I would be far better off as a single mother not working. It's sad when you want to work.

For Rachel O'Sullivan in Greystones Co Wicklow, she says that having children was not the answer to her efforts to have a home. We cut our own cloth. We went on to have 5 children, that is what we wanted. We wanted a big family but we sacrificed a home because of that" Rachel's husband is earning 3 times the average wage and yet in 10 weeks's time when her lease is up, her family is facing the very real threat of becoming homeless. "We have mortgage approval for almost half a million euros but month by month it's getting further out of our reach. Moving out of Greystones is not an option for Rachel's young family...

Others haven't even got to the bidding stage even with two stable wages coming in. "Connie O'Connor . I live in Glenbeigh - I am from Cahirciveen and I want to settle down with my fiancée in the Glenbeigh area. "Unfortunately because we are not both from the Glenbeigh area we wouldn't be able to get planning if we bought a site because we don't have a history in the Glenbeigh area"

While all three are different, they have expectations from today's Housing for All Plan

Rachel: I would love to see a vacant house tax. This country badly needs it. I can drive two minutes from my house and there are new build estates that have houses empty in them for 4 years now. They are for sale for €585k and they won't take an offer under that. And those houses are empty now and they have been for 4 years.

Grace from Tralee: It's very easy for the government to support someone who doesn't have a job who is already on social welfare but I would like to see support for those who are "bursting" themselves week in week out
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Rachel's husband is earning 3 times the average wage and yet in 10 weeks' time when her lease is up, her family is facing the very real threat of becoming homeless.
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This was a ridiculous comment by the reporter. But in this mad world, maybe someone earning €120k who refuses to move out of one of the areas with the highest house prices in Ireland, would make it into the homeless stats.

But when they classify people in this situation as homeless, they demean the people who are genuinely homeless.
 
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Itchy said:
Stereotyping and generalisation (of c. 45 secs of radio) brought you to your conclusions.
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Hi Itchy

She is very typical of people's attitude to housing over the years.

Most people I know would have loved to stay in the area where they were born. But they couldn't afford to. And they just bought where they could afford. Most people I know deferred having kids until they had got the house. But some people choose to have kids and then complain that they can't buy a house.

Or they have kids to go higher on the housing waiting list.

It's a mad system.

Brendan
 
Don't really want to rant and derail - But I can at least toss in my knowledge on Greystones.

I'm across the road from those new houses. They are massively oversubscribed with buyers. Essentially they are all sold for the next few phases, and Sherry Fitz are just shopping for the perfect buyers at this stage. I'm not sure if there is a bidding war, but they certainly are not waiting for anyone to get a Mortgage in place.

Those vacant houses - They are from the same developer (Cairn Homes) and are across the road. There's 3-4 of them sitting empty, and it's difficult to get a straight answer on why. They have sat empty since I moved in 2 years ago. The house I'm in sat empty for a year and a half. I know someone trying to buy either one of the empty houses, or one in Archers wood - and they are just not open to offers for either.

Second hand houses are naturally in bidding wars.

Other big issues in the area in short are the School and Creche shortages, and Transport to Dublin getting very bad south of Greystones (assuming Dublin jobs given the price of houses). You can move further South, but the sacrifices seem pretty major. It's difficult to keep the high paying job while ferrying kids to scattered Schools.

Where should they live I suppose? Stay and rent - I'd worry a lot about being priced out on Rent, and I'd go any Morning Ireland and complain before waiting for it to happen.
Up and move to (again presuming Dublin jobs) a more affordable side of Dublin I guess, Wicklow not an option at all.
 
The population of Greystones and surrounding area has grown in line with the development plans set out 5, 10 and more years ago. The population growth is defined by central Government and then pushed down on the counties for incorporation into the 5 year plans.

Newly built housing in Greystones area is in line with the planned population increases - unfortunately, this being Ireland, other resources have not followed or rather preceded the housing/population increase (schools, creches, transport, etc etc ) and so are woefully lacking.
 
None of those people are homeless.

And the solutions to the 'on the streets' homeless has very little to do with the wider housing market issues of supply and rising prices.
 
andrew2000ad said:
They are from the same developer (Cairn Homes) and are across the road.
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Andrew that is very interesting.

Are you sure that Cairn Homes still owns them? Could they have sold them and the new owners have decided not to sell them?

It would make no sense for Cairn Homes to hoard sellable houses.
They make their money from developing and building homes.
They don't want a lot of capital tied up in houses.

If they were taking some bet on the market, then they wouldn't be selling any homes.

It's odd that they are trying to sell homes and yet, at the same time, won't sell two or three in the same or in a nearby development.

The only thing I can think of is that they signed contracts to sell them and the buyers didn't honour them and so they are subject to legal action. But with house price rises, they should just sell them to new buyers if their contracts allow them to do that.

Brendan
 
Where did I make any reference to the number of lattes etc.

I have not changed my view that supply is the issue. The issue I have is that people/businesses who speculated should not be forced be it punitive taxes etc for their speculation working out.

If the State wants to resolve the issue then let it build on its own land. Vacant properties are the owners to do what they want with them. They legally own them. I don't accept that owners should be forced to do anything other than maintain the property that's its safe.

Private property owners if they leave them empty is their right. If I have a second property that I want to leave vacant then why are your rights more than mine because you want to live in it. We are both citizens of the State and should both have equal rights. Why should yours trump mine?

Yes property is a business but the State are constantly changing the terms of business.

I have asked this same question on multiple occasions and have yet to get an answer. Who is going to pay for all these properties. People say the costs are to high but we have scarce raw materials and construction labour so people want increased building regs,insulation and energy efficient properties but don't want to pay the costs associated with achieving theses levels.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Itchy

She is very typical of people's attitude to housing over the years.



Brendan
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This particularly struck a chord with me. Here we have a woman at the age of 19 goes on the housing list.

Based solely on the person's age of 19 they have not even tried to look after their long term housing needs rather made a conscious decision that the State would house her long term.

I don't have an issue with someone in their late 30's or early 40's being housed by the State having spent 15 or 20 yrs actually trying to sort their housing situation for the long term.
 
As someone with a large family I feel the woman should purchase a 3 bed in her preferred area and extend the downstairs or convert the attic. This would be a regular occurrence for large families. No need to go on national tv and complain about the housing crises in my opinion
 
Not sure that the argument of "staying in their community" should be entertained.

Its not like we live in a sprawling landmass with drastically different cultures, dialects and customs. You'll always find like minded people in whatever community you live in.
 
If you were 19 and you knew that if you put your name on the housing list you'd be given an almost free house in 10-15 years why wouldn't you put your name on the housing list? Getting a Council House is like winning the Lottery. You'd be crazy not to.
The same applied to couples who have kids where he buys the house and rents it to her. She's officially a single parent so gets HAPS. The State then pays their mortgage for them. They would be mad not to do it.

As long as the system is structured as it is we'll always have a 'Homeless problem'.
As long as the State is using the taxes they gather from potential first time buyers to price them out of the market we'll have a problem with first time buyers not being able to access the market.
 
Greystones Rachel was back on this morning giving her views of the Housing for All plan

She was introduced by Rachel English as "facing eviction in 10 weeks' time." RTE missed an opportunity to describe her as "homeless".

She is "seriously disappointed and underwhelmed" .

She said we need a Vacant House tax now.

She said that Help to Buy and Shared Equity are shown to inflate prices but the government will go ahead with it anyway.

The funniest bit was "I'm ready to leave the country, if it wasn't for the fact that I have five children..."

She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
She is prepared to leave Ireland but not move up one Dart station to Bray.
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Yea, it's really hard to take RTE seriously when their flagship news program is so utterly tabloid. I know they have a strong left-wing populist agenda but there's just no effort to actually be journalists. These are the same people who turn their noses up at Fox News.
 
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