Meeting with financial advisor today re pension planning...
- Thread starter Jumbled
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In practise, this is more complicated. Post 95 PS workers who wish to retire at 60 under the teachers scheme would be required to bridge the gap between this age and state pension age. They can do this by claiming JSB and supplementary pension but I think can be a difficult process. Only those in the Pre 2004 scheme still have 60 as a retirement age. The main point I was trying to address was that the state pension is not paid in addition to this pension, but is included in it.
Benbulben
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Thanks Protocol, I hope nobody is trying to peddle that kind of nonsense any more. Talk about money for old rope.
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I would suggest that the starting point is the HR department in your current employment/sector. I take it that this is the Dept of Education in Athlone for you? From the website this seems to be the form they require https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https:...aa4-959a-4478-8a34-9a0bde20260b.pdf#page=null
I suggest you send a covering letter. You were not in the pension scheme during your nurse training years - point this out and that you would not have been eligible to join then but that student nurse training under the traditional in-service model is reckonable and that you want to buy this service (or, at least, get an estimate).
I don't know if you were ever in a pension scheme during your nursing years but one way or another tell them in your letter and set out details in the form of all service that you want to be reckoned.
Also outline any service in the teaching area before joining the pension scheme and your request to have this reckonable service made pensionable now (a separate form or forms will be required). The teaching service should be more straightforward in that you only need verification rather than both verification and transfer.
Getting your service verified by the relevant organizations can be challenging (I guess this varies by organization - and luck). But be prepared to do plenty of follow up - both with your current HR and with your previous employers. It might be worth calling the Mater HR department now to enquire and explaining your situation. At least you might get a feel for the lie of the land. Ditto for any previous PS employer from whom you need verification.
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Very good advice there from Ruffian.
Would the Nurses’ Union be able to give you any guidance? They must be getting similar queries from time to time.
Would the Nurses’ Union be able to give you any guidance? They must be getting similar queries from time to time.
Remember any additional service deemed reckonable is really valuable to but it will require perseverance, I expect.
And they do not have much interest or knowledge about Purchase of Notional Service, which is not surprising given that their objective is sale of AVCs.
Notional Service is a good option for some people.
You mean the crowd who are in cahoots with Cornmarket for AVCs?
They might if there is any issue specifically with the nurse training element. But I gather that the OP switched to the education sector a long time ago and that means a transfer as well as verification. I think that their current HR is the place to start. Tracing a sequence back through all the service and getting it verified may be tricky. Verification of the initial teaching roles will probably have to come first.
It's of no help to the OP but it really important for all who are starting to out in the PS in any sort of contract or temporary roles to keep account of all service and go about getting it verified (and, as appropriate, transferred) as soon as possible after they get into the pension scheme. Leaving it until retirement starts to loom onto the horizon is not a good idea.
It's not that difficult for an advisor (any advisor) who's selling AVCs in the PS advice space to establish the costs of the notional service for a client, then compare that with a projection on an AVC at the same end date and then outline the advantages and disadvantages of both options for the individual.
My best guess is that if the charges on AVC or PRSA AVC are high (1%+ AMC and contribution charges etc.) then the NS might win (assuming the client understands the inflexibility of that path).
If the advisor made it clear from outset that i) if NS path is chosen/recommended there's a fee of (say) €750 and ii) if AVC/PRSA AVC path is chosen/recommended then charges on the ACV product are 1% AMC + 2% contribution charge then that's a fair price for a fair service.
But, if that was available it's highly likely that the vast majority of people that are reading these pages would baulk at both options and arrive at the conclusion that an execution only product with 100% allocation and an AMC of 0.60%/0.75%, coupled with the risk of an investment strategy of 100% equities would probably beat the pants off the NS option over the longer term. And, that if they still wanted the certainty of what NS offers at retirement age they could buy an annuity with some/all of the fund value.
I cannot see anyone setting up a business to counsel public servants on NS and just wait for the few to knock on their door. Actuaries price NS. Actuaries price AVCs. I seriously doubt that they 'no brainered' one option over the other when thry devised the tables for pricing NS, which was many moons ago and product pricing was totally different.
Heard a stat recently from one of the product providers that the average pension fund size at maturity in 2024 was circa €200,000 (obvious that fund performance has brought that up in last few years) and that circa 10% of post retirement product sales were annuities.
Gerard
www.prsa.ie
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LDFerguson
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I'm not just talking about advising on NSP vs AVCs vs AVC PRSA. The original post in this thread is about technicalities on the PS scheme and I'd say that there would be enough people out there willing to pay a reasonable fee to someone to answer queries like this to sustain a small business.
This is the crux of it though. What is a reasonable fee for such a service and how many people would pay it? What would you pay @Jumbled ?
I honestly think that if it was a viable proposition/business then someone would be doing it already. At the end of that session on the technicalities of the PS scheme would be the inevitable question of 'What do you think I should do?' and, when the reply is 'You have to get separate (paid for) advice on that' I doubt they'd recommend the service to someone else.
LDFerguson
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Maybe so. In my head I think it would be a nice one for, say a public servant who retired early and wants a low-pressure gig to keep the pipe and slippers at bay for another few years. Might or might not be a full-time career in it.
"Here's your options and the implications of Option A vs Option B for your particular circumstances. You make the choice. My job is to explain to you what your choices are."
CharlieMac
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This is what I am not sure about in relation to purchase of referable amounts on the Single Pension Scheme.
Definitely it makes sense to "save up" the cost of buying those benefits at retirement by making AVCs + compounded growth over a number of years. (And with a split transfer you could have an annuity and an ARF).
But are you so sure that buying an annuity from another provider will be as good value as directly from the PS employer?
In my case the HSE bump up everyone's salary about twice a year, to keep up with inflation, and they do the same to those retired but who were in the same jobs. I have a feeling that PS workers who want to go the annuity route will surely be better off buying one from their employer on the day they skip off to retirement bliss.
Still waiting on confirmation if a split transfer is possible from an AVC PRSA..