Mary O'Rourke
- Thread starter CGorman
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Actually that would include me. I strongly feel that state funded/owned institutions should be secular institutions. However I admit that I am probably in a minority when it comes to this.icantbelieve said:
Imagine if the UK had a monarchy which had sectarian rules specifically banning the marriage of Catholics into the family? Er, hang on a minute... That's the sort of instituionalised sectariansm/prejudice that is more dangerous and important to deal with than ill judged off the cuff remarks which are potentially objectionable. Calling for heads to roll for such comments trivialises these matters and loses sight of the bigger picture in terms of dealing with racism and prejudice.legend99 said:
It looks like she has decided not to apologize (from rte news):
"Ms O'Rourke said she would not be apologising for using the phrase 'working like a black' because she meant it in a complimentary sense about her party workers.
She also said three people she was referring to had accepted it in that manner."
It isnt the party workers that are offended!
I am disapointed that people are running to the "pc gone mad" defense of this.... PC isn't always a BAD thing - society needs rules for people to live by. I would agreee that PC can be used wrongly (like removing cribs from hospitals) but not in this case.
If she doesnt realise she needs to apologise then maybe she does need to resign. A gaff is a gaff - but this comment is undefendable.
"Ms O'Rourke said she would not be apologising for using the phrase 'working like a black' because she meant it in a complimentary sense about her party workers.
She also said three people she was referring to had accepted it in that manner."
It isnt the party workers that are offended!
I am disapointed that people are running to the "pc gone mad" defense of this.... PC isn't always a BAD thing - society needs rules for people to live by. I would agreee that PC can be used wrongly (like removing cribs from hospitals) but not in this case.
If she doesnt realise she needs to apologise then maybe she does need to resign. A gaff is a gaff - but this comment is undefendable.
icantbelieve
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There's no way she should resign, for what, for using a phrase that is still relatively comonplace and therefore representative of this country. Also the effort to compare what would be done in England is laughable, suddenly the Lords are fair minded, culturally unbiased libertarians.
My point also holds up in comparison with England, we are relative newcomers to dealing with the changes required to assimilate significant numbers of immigrants whereas the English have had decades to learn.
If Mary O'Rourke apologises to any black people who have been offended and assures them that she did not mean any offence then that's enough. I think she should ignore the (non-black) pc correct brigade who jump on any opportunity to take offence on behalf of others and cry racist at any opportunity.
I'm stunned irrespective of which country you were in Ronan that you think people who react to one slip and allow it to override what they know of you through experience as friends. If I'd been living abroad and knew English people who I considered friends based on how they interacted with me and my family, I wouldn't ditch them just because they called someone a fenian bastard. Nobody is purer than pure and in given situations people say things that don't reflect how they live their lives. You could for example hold the view that there shouldn't be immigration in this country (and then be called a racist) but be equally of the opinion that immigrants who are in this country shouldn't be discriminated against or hounded out.
My point also holds up in comparison with England, we are relative newcomers to dealing with the changes required to assimilate significant numbers of immigrants whereas the English have had decades to learn.
If Mary O'Rourke apologises to any black people who have been offended and assures them that she did not mean any offence then that's enough. I think she should ignore the (non-black) pc correct brigade who jump on any opportunity to take offence on behalf of others and cry racist at any opportunity.
I'm stunned irrespective of which country you were in Ronan that you think people who react to one slip and allow it to override what they know of you through experience as friends. If I'd been living abroad and knew English people who I considered friends based on how they interacted with me and my family, I wouldn't ditch them just because they called someone a fenian bastard. Nobody is purer than pure and in given situations people say things that don't reflect how they live their lives. You could for example hold the view that there shouldn't be immigration in this country (and then be called a racist) but be equally of the opinion that immigrants who are in this country shouldn't be discriminated against or hounded out.
Nobody has criticised political correctness (gone mad or otherwise) or dismissed it as a bad thing in this thread so far as I can see.yankinlk said:
It might be worth noting that President McAleese didn't resign over [broken link removed] about some NI Protestants a while ago - comments that I would consider much more serious and harmful than O'Rourke's ill judged comment above:
icantbelieve
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Do I wish we could still use terms that are interpreted the way they're meant and not just used as a stick to beat people with, then yes? Or are we still a nation that complains whenever a derogatory Paddy comment is made, personally if its a funny one I laugh but if I think the person making the remark believes it then I laugh at them.
"Not every opportunity, just those that present themselves" surely that is every opportunity or are there opportunities that don't present themselves?
If any member of a community that could be remotely included in the term "black" as used by Mary O'Rourke speaks up and says that they were offended then yes she should apologise and if she doesn't she should resign. I believe eskimo is now a derogatory term but if used in public should an apology be given because all the non-indiginous-alaskans in this country scream racist (I'm assuming for this example that there are no indiginous-alaskans living in this country).
To be honest the only reason I'd look for an apology for Mary O'Rourke would be to show me that she has manners and is not a fool, her actions in the past have already shown me that she's no racist.
Ronan, you've made me smile with the extremity you've gone to to make an argument, common place or not drink driving is against the law and that's why McDaid lost his job, to compare the two, wow!! Surely if something is commonplace then it doesn't have to be acceptable for it to be representative and judging from the reaction to the criticism of Mary O'Rourke I'd have to say that its seems what she said is considered acceptable by most and thankfully its the majority of a society that decides on these things.
"Not every opportunity, just those that present themselves" surely that is every opportunity or are there opportunities that don't present themselves?
If any member of a community that could be remotely included in the term "black" as used by Mary O'Rourke speaks up and says that they were offended then yes she should apologise and if she doesn't she should resign. I believe eskimo is now a derogatory term but if used in public should an apology be given because all the non-indiginous-alaskans in this country scream racist (I'm assuming for this example that there are no indiginous-alaskans living in this country).
To be honest the only reason I'd look for an apology for Mary O'Rourke would be to show me that she has manners and is not a fool, her actions in the past have already shown me that she's no racist.
Ronan, you've made me smile with the extremity you've gone to to make an argument, common place or not drink driving is against the law and that's why McDaid lost his job, to compare the two, wow!! Surely if something is commonplace then it doesn't have to be acceptable for it to be representative and judging from the reaction to the criticism of Mary O'Rourke I'd have to say that its seems what she said is considered acceptable by most and thankfully its the majority of a society that decides on these things.
this is geting out of hand PC gone mad. how exctly did she insult and who did she insult.
did she say that a section of ireland are lazy and do nothing- no it was work hard.
is it an insult to be called black - no.
so what is the problem?
the same saying is used down here but slightly differently with the n word as opposed to the b word.
did she say that a section of ireland are lazy and do nothing- no it was work hard.
is it an insult to be called black - no.
so what is the problem?
the same saying is used down here but slightly differently with the n word as opposed to the b word.
ronan_d_john said:
Ah come off it!
Firstly...to lose three (so called) friends because you used some mildly racist terminology (completely innocently) just means that a) they weren't really your friends and b) they weren't that smart to not be able to recognise that you didn't really mean it and it was a mistake.
It seems to me you didn't do anything that bad and these three people COMPLETELY overreacted!
I have no great opinion of O'Rourke but I doubt she meant anything by it. She made a mistake. A simple apology should suffice. Everyone who mentioned those who make a real difference as opposed to those who make the 'right' soundbites is absolutely spot on.
For f**k sake. Give us all a break. Can people not see the woods from the trees? There's far more important issues going on in this country rather than some off-hand remark made in error by a reasonably well regarded politician.
If you really have to then apply some logic to the situation. The term 'working like a black' is a very old one. O'Rourke used it as it would have been something she grew up with. It might be a racist terminology but there was no racism intended. Modern, multi-cultural Ireland will be judged by its actions towards ethnic communities...not by slips of the tongue from the odd politician.
Here here. I agree with Jem and Gabriel. This is lunacy. Representative of the Ireland we now live in which is obsessed with perception and style rather than substance. Was the insult intended? I can't see how anyone could argue that it was. If we keep going this way we'll end up with a bunch of drones as politicians, telling us what we want to hear and doing nothing at all for risk of offending someone.
bottom line. You expect the highest standards from an elected public representative. And that comment is not the highest standard with all due respect. Its nothing to do with PC. Its to do with respect.
"It might be a racist terminology but there was no racism intended"
I knew someone who drove home once drunk. There was no harm intended. Does that mean it was right?
"It might be a racist terminology but there was no racism intended"
I knew someone who drove home once drunk. There was no harm intended. Does that mean it was right?
ClubMan said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad
With all due respects, she's a pseudo elected representative. She is appointed by a Taoiseach who is elected by the people. She only gets elected as a result of his election. Her term of office is directly linked to the term of Dail Eireann. She answers to the people and is expected to answer to the same standards as a member of Dail Eireann. And as I said, in my opinion her comments do not refelct the high standards I would expect.
[As a matter of interest, how would you refer to a County Councillor who wasn't directly elected but who had been co-opted onto the council....would you refer to him/her as an elected public rep. or as a 'co-opted councilor'??]
ronan_d_john said:
Perhaps we would be better to use them, and use them over and over and over until they loose their power.
Besides, the issue is not what she said but the intent behind it. We cannot condemn people for unintenional slips of the toungue. We can be adults and realise the spirit of the speech rather than concentrate on the words.
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I suppose it would depend on whether (s)he worked like a.... very hard-working person?legend99 said:
no doubt Pat Rabbitte and Michael D will be apopleptic with rage at the gaffe..I am suprised that Mary o Rourke hasn't apologised though..that surely would be the best way end the whole saga..theres al ot more serious matters to occupy our time, and that of our elected politicians imho d
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