I wouldnt like McGuiness as president this time out. A couple of reasons but the main one is that this President will be in office for 2016, and if its McGuinness then Sinn Fein will hi-jack the centenary commerorations and "the troubles" will be lumped in with 1916 and we, in the Republic, will nearly end up having to either tacitly endorse the Provos, or just ignore the commemorations altogether (both of these would be unfortunate outcomes)..
Who do you imagine will refuse to meet him?I dont think SF or a SF candidate represent what people in the Republic want to present to the world - of course we'll soon find out, thats democracy - but can you imagine the cringe factor of people refusing to meet him, protests against him etc.
As regards the argument that "if its good enough for the North why isnt it good enough for us" - basically the GF Agreement is a grand compromise to end terrorism (& also we cant ignore SF's electoral mandate with years) but basically there was a gain to be had by having SF inside the tent, much as many people found that hard to stomach. Whereas, in the South, there's no upside for us in having SF in politics at all, so why should we pretend we're happy about them?? If they get votes and elect TD's thats fair enough, again thats democracy, but I wouldnt criticse any other party for not wanting to touch them with a barge pole...
Its quite simple, when you have a wildly dysfunctional state you sometimes do things you wouldnt otherwise do in order to improve things. So you have SF in power (yes I know people vote for them but the system is contrived to give power sharing and something for everyone - fair enough). So yes, its fair enough for us to ask Unionists to share power with them even if we dont want to, if Unionism hadnt made such a bags of it for the 65 years or so before their power got taken away, they would never have been put in that position - so suck it up.It's only become fashionable for 'you in the republic' to acknowledge the commemorations in the last few years anyway, you'll hardly be missed.
I refuse to be told by those from a foreign jurisdiction how I should commemorate national events. I think its gas how Nordy Republicans think there are on the road to "greening" the South - we had to listen to them for years because they held the threat of violence, now we just wish they'd go away and paint kerbstones or whatever it is they get their kicks from. Its like in the GAA, if we were waiting on the Ulster Council to move with opinion we'd be 'holding out' as the amateur sports organisation with a harder line than SF.
It's funny how for years Sinn Fein were told by 'you in the republic' to move on! Stop living in the past! Embrace politics! When they do embrace politics (and have been doing so for the best part of 20 years) Suddenly the past is where we want to be again.
If the past was where we wanted to be we'd be arresting people (if not debarred by the GF Agreement), but its a long way down the track to saying we want a former combatant as President. I respect the work that McGuinness has done over the last 20 years, but I think its a bit soon for this.
Also, OIRA - Workers Party - Democratic Left - Labour? When did this continuum cease to matter? Or does it just not suit the agenda?
I dont remember Pat Rabbitte planting any bombs. Pronsias was the last one, as far as I recall, who was in any way involved, and that was donkeys years ago.
I'm no Sinn Fein supporter but the rank hypocrisy of sections of free state society and media is laughable at times.
"Its like in the GAA, if we were waiting on the Ulster Council to move with opinion we'd be 'holding out' as the amateur sports organisation with a harder line than SF."
I suspect that this is a baseless comment. Show me one concrete example where the Ulster Council has been at fault in failing to "move with opinion".
I thought it was very telling that on his very first day of canvassing McGuinness started slagging off "west-brit" media, hardly reconstructed now and is that really the type of person we want representing a fully inclusive non-sectarian republic?
He tried to change his tack later in the day saying it was an off-the-cuff remark, I don't want my President to be making snide comments.
Its quite simple, when you have a wildly dysfunctional state you sometimes do things you wouldnt otherwise do in order to improve things. So you have SF in power (yes I know people vote for them but the system is contrived to give power sharing and something for everyone - fair enough). So yes, its fair enough for us to ask Unionists to share power with them even if we dont want to, if Unionism hadnt made such a bags of it for the 65 years or so before their power got taken away, they would never have been put in that position - so suck it up.
In the South we have no reason to give Shinners a free ride, if they want to throw their toys out of the cot when they dont get a cuddle by the 'Free State' media and society, then too bad. Its only a pity that Hume isnt well enough or interested enough to run - Seamus Mallon is another who could have been given an unreserved endorsement.
When you're standing proudly at the 2016 commemoration you can take comfort in the fact that those men died so that you could refer to some of your fellow Irish as foreigners.refuse to be told by those from a foreign jurisdiction how I should commemorate national events..
If the past was where we wanted to be we'd be arresting people (if not debarred by the GF Agreement), but its a long way down the track to saying we want a former combatant as President. I respect the work that McGuinness has done over the last 20 years, but I think its a bit soon for this. ..
I dont remember Pat Rabbitte planting any bombs. Pronsias was the last one, as far as I recall, who was in any way involved, and that was donkeys years ago. ..
In the South we have no reason to give Shinners a free ride, if they want to throw their toys out of the cot when they dont get a cuddle by the 'Free State' media and society, then too bad...
And therein lies the problem of Irish politics and the so called democracy we live in.
Fianna Fail have just told their members that they are banned from supporting any Presidential candidate.
The public clearly want certain people to be put forward as candidates but due to the decisions being made by a select few (Micheál Martin), we are left with such a small and uninspiring list to choose from.
Ah don't worry, she's got plenty to be apologising for as well.Paddy Power
Michael D evens
Martin McGuinness 9/4
Gay Mitchell 4/1
This is real scary. If Martin McGuinness gets in Irish Bond yields will soar. As someone else pointed out this will greatly enhance SF's credibility with the electorate and with some pretty tough austerity ahead, one could see SF really advancing in the 2016 election.
Can't imaginne Martin's 10 min chat with the Queen if she accepts Enda's return invite. "Sorry about the ol' uncle and all that..."
Most of them refusing to come to Croke Park to meet the Queen??
Why couldn't Micheál have said that although FF won't be putting forward a candidate, all FF TD's are free to support who they want.
When you're standing proudly at the 2016 commemoration you can take comfort in the fact that those men died so that you could refer to some of your fellow Irish as foreigners.
That was just to wind you up, since you'd gone all "Free Stater" on it. We did have to jack Articles 2 &3 in order to sort ye out, thereby putting ye beyond the Republic, but sure wasnt it worth it overall.
It's a pity 'you in the south' haven't shown the same zest in pursuing the misdeeds of the British government in your noble quest for justice.
I dont think "us in the South" have ever shirked looking for enquiries or information re, for instance, the Dublin & Monaghan bombings - its just we werent in a position to demand action, not having more direct avenues of "persuasion" open to us......
Ah, so it's ok if it was donkeys years ago. That clears that up.
From Wikipedia (re Prionsias De Rossa): Soon after his sixteenth birthday, in May 1956, he joined the IRA,[2] and was politically active in Sinn Féin from an early age. During the IRA Border Campaign, he was captured training IRA members in Glencree in May 1956, served seven months in Mountjoy Prison and was then interned at the Curragh Camp.[3]
So a few points (and lets assume Wiki is right on this -it tallies with my sense of event) - he was 16, I'm fairly sure he didnt kill anyone, and it was in the 50's. The passage of time is a legitimate factor, if this was 2030 or whatever and "the troubles" were well in the past it could be a different discussion re our Martin. For many, him talking about "the cutting edge of the IRA" is still echoing while he now wants to be our first citizen.
Free ride? No, some professional journalism without the agenda would do.
Since they put Norris on the griddle for writing a letter I think they're not going too hard on Martin to raise questions about his suitability.
Ah, so it's ok if it was donkeys years ago. That clears that up.
From Wikipedia (re Prionsias De Rossa): Soon after his sixteenth birthday, in May 1956, he joined the IRA,[2] and was politically active in Sinn Féin from an early age. During the IRA Border Campaign, he was captured training IRA members in Glencree in May 1956, served seven months in Mountjoy Prison and was then interned at the Curragh Camp.[3]
...and Prionsias De Rossa isn't standing for President.
"I suspect that this is a baseless comment. Show me one concrete example where the Ulster Council has been at fault in failing to "move with opinion". Under Danny Murphy's stewardship as Secretary, the Ulster Council has been remarkably progressive. It is not their fault if individual counties within Ulster have occasionally opposed various policy positions.
Well there was strong Ulster opposition to removing the security forces rule, and the opening of Croke Park (ok the opposition wasnt exclusively in Ulster).
Maybe I unfairly mentioned the Ulster Council as such, but put it this way, if Ulster counties were representative of the association as a whole, those changes wouldnt have been passed when they were passed. Maybe they'd be passed by now since SF supported the PSNI, but SF wanted to be the ones to make the step, and the GAA would be left looking like eejits scurrying in after SF - SF like to be seen as the agenda setters, whereas the GAA as a broad based organisation decided they wouldnt wait to be led by relative extremists with limited support in the Republic (especially at the time).
Norris has 11 out of the required 20 votes. I think you are going to see FF come under huge pressure over the weekend to facilitate his nomination, particularly with Martin McGuiness's introduction in the race.
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