lufthansa.core few putting jobs at risk?

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thedaras

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I know this issue was discussed some time ago on this site,however now that its reared its ulgy head again I thought it may be the right time to revisit it.
I cant believe these people ,what are they thinking of?
It seems they are not implementing what they agreed,and are refusing to work overtime.
Now its boring to say it but the reality is they are lucky to have a job at all.

What kind of message are they sending out ?

Is it the usual core hardliners that are putting so many peoples jobs at risk again?

At this stage , I think they deserve to be sacked ,those who are causing the problems should be taught a lesson and watch the amount of applicants who would be very happy to take their jobs.

If they are so unhappy with the employers why dont they leave and those who are happy to have a job can stay? There are a lot of people who would happily take their jobs.

It appears that a group of staff is very vocal and bitter in their opposition to the agreement. The effective ban on overtime in key areas is beginning to seriously damage the company.

Complete and utter madness!
 
Lucky to have a job?? These people are highly skilled workers who make Lufthansa a lot of money. There is no luck involved. The company have seen that Irish workers are taking pay cuts, reduced hours etc. without even a whimper of complaint and are jumping on the bandwagon to hold a gun to workers heads.
 
The work can be done cheaper in just about any other country in the developed world, and the jobs are not particularly skilled; wake up.
The problem is, as outlined by the OP, a core group of older employees who want to close the company down and get a good pay off. They don't care about the people they work with (be they described using the stupid and outdated terms of "workers" or "management").
If that group get their way the whole operation will be closed down as, and I think only the most idiotic member of the bearded brethren would disagree, there is a global downturn in the aviation industry and so there is less demand for servicing. When there is excess supply the least efficient/most expensive get hit first.
 

Yes lucky to have a job,have you seen the unemployment figures?

They are not highly skilled workers..guess how much it would cost to replace them!

The companys who are implementing paycuts and reduced working hours are the ones who will survive..

There IS a CORE group who are putting the others at risk,the facts are that there is a very militant union group there most of whom are looking after number one,and they are the ones who are happy to be made redundant while the others join the dole q.

If this company has such bad work practices and such bad pay,how come the staff are not leaving?

Those who are not happy with the conditions are free to go and find employment elsewhere,oh but then where would they find a job?So yes they are lucky and they are NOT highly skilled.

They can very easily be replaced at a lot less cost to the company.
There are a huge amount of companys closing down,and the former workers and the first ones knocking at ministers doors and going to the media looking for help to keep the company going..

Pity they didnt have this attitude when the company was operational.
Theres a lesson to be learned from this .

You must keep in mind that the lufthansa workers agreed to the terms and then had a change of mind.

what message do you think this is sending out?
There is no doubt that workers should be treated with respect,but there is also no doubt that militants and unions need to get a grip.
 

well said. I think that pretty much sums it up. What I don't understand is why the union reps feel like the need to defend this ridiculous behaviour. Clearly the majority of their members have agreed to the changes, why are the union pandering to the minority

I don't agree with the phrase "lucky to have a job", I think it's irrelevant to this story.
 
After 20 yrs in the workforce - I've been laid off or (made redundant) once in that time...funnily enough, it was the only job there'd been a union and all that goes with it...(CIF).

Every other job has been non-union and never had a minute's argument with mgmt or owners.
My point is - when taking a position these days most people sign a contract and or know their working conditions.
I have no time for unions or their so-called leaders as most owners value their staff these days as assets to the company which in turn leaves unions 'redundant'
 
bren1916 said:
...I have no time for unions or their so-called leaders as most owners value their staff these days as assets to the company which in turn leaves unions 'redundant'
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I agree. Whilst unions have undoubtedly done valuable work in decades past I think they are increasingly an irrelevance in terms of fighting for 'rights'.
 
cerbera1 said:
They want them to work overtime and to pay them less than previous or not pay them at all but to give them time off (hour for hour) when it suits management.
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That's how it works in all companies I worked for in the last 12 years in the private sector (IT)

cerbera1 said:
This should not be acceptable at any time.
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Why not?

cerbera1 said:
There is also staff up there who are on reduced hours, and then management are DEMANDING others work overtime, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't overtime supposed to be VOLUNTARY......
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Dunno mate, sounds to me like this lot are just out to milk it for all it's worth with little or no concern for those co-workers that actually want to keep their jobs who would be happy to make sacrifices in order to keep the business profitable and their jobs secure.
 
i have no sympathy for the few workers trying to sabotage the company. However i think maintaining aircraft engines is highly skilled and precise work, i think there is alot of snobbery about what is and isn't high skilled work, many people think that high skilled work only involves sitting in front of a computer and not getting your hands dirty, in other words white collar, the price that the work can be done for in another country is not an equator for how highly skilled the work is, it is simply shows how open to international competion the industry is, and the aviation industry is very open, A doctor, nurse or teacher in india earns far far less than in ireland , however noone would suggest that they are paid less than irish ones because they are less skilled, it is simply the case that there is not open competition between doctors ,nurses or teachers in different countries. hospitals and schools dont shut up shop in ireland to take advantage of cheap labour in india, but aviation companies do, textile companies do, software companies do, so wage rates in different sectors is not an indicator of skill level
 

I think that restrictive work practices should be resisted, regardless of the occupation of the workers involved - white or blue collar. I suspect that Lufthansa has suffered the experience of most unionised employments in Ireland i.e. years of unreasonable demands, resistance to any change, union reps defending the indefensible. Is it any wonder that that 80% of private sector companies are non-union.
Watch this space - Lufthansa (and other unionised companies) do not have a long term future in Ireland.
 
So maintaining Jet engines is not highly skilled work?

I bet that everyone posting in this thread has never even seen the inside of that factory. Let alone know about the work thats involved.
 
I think I may have said this on another thread but here goes anyway. Unions have sounded the death knell of theis country. They've demand high wages and perks and benefits for jobs that trained chimps could do. I have freinds that worked in manufacturing jobs in Waterford that paid very well for unskilled work. Guess what ?They are all unemployed now as those jobs have left the country because of high wage costs.

Unions are a thing of the past. Other countries like India and China are now where it's all at. So much for Ireland inc.
 
cerbera1 said:
Just a quick point, I have a relation working there adn while I agree that some are being Pig-headed about this, management appear to be bullying the staff somewhat given the current environment.
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Asking staff to abide by the terms and conditions of employment they have already agreed to is hardly "bullying".

cerbera1 said:
They want them to work overtime and to pay them less than previous or not pay them at all but to give them time off (hour for hour) when it suits management.
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These are the terms of my current employment - there is no overtime pay, I work overtime whenever the job necessitates and as recompense I can take the same amount of time in lieu at management discretion. And I've got one of those cushy public sector numbers.

cerbera1 said:
This should not be acceptable at any time.
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I'd love to know why you think this, I consider it fairly standard practice.

cerbera1 said:
There is also staff up there who are on reduced hours, and then management are DEMANDING others work overtime, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't overtime supposed to be VOLUNTARY......
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Overtime in my job is most certainly not voluntary. Also, there are perfectly valid reasons why some staff might be on short time while others are on overtime.

I agree with the point raised by the OP and several others, there is a core group of older workers only too happy to see this company go to the wall. Unions in Ireland appear to exist to serve this type of worker and I find it strange that younger members tolerate this behaviour.

I notice in the recent dispute regarding Dublin Bus lay-offs how quickly the union became less vocal once management agreed to their core demand to over voluntary redundancies to the older workers.
 
grahamo said:
So maintaining Jet engines is not highly skilled work?
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Designing them certainly is but I'm not convinced the same can be said for maintaining or assembling them. Regardless, it is irrelevant in this context, Ireland has no monopoly on highly skilled jobs and there is nothing to stop them moving to Bangalore or Beijing if they can no longer be performed competitively here.
 
grahamo said:
So maintaining Jet engines is not highly skilled work?

I bet that everyone posting in this thread has never even seen the inside of that factory. Let alone know about the work thats involved.
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I have worked in the industry and have been in the plant in question a number of times.
 
A thing of the past, eh?
 
Complainer said:
A thing of the past, eh?
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Indeed; from your link; "the rates of unionization between the private and public sector are starkly different. According to the new federal information, 7.6 percent of private-sector employees belong to a union, while about 37 percent of government employees do.

Roughly 275,000 of the union-member surge -- about two-thirds last year's gain -- came from the public sector, according to the new federal statistics. Union gains in the private sector, by contrast, were meager."
Same old story, eh?
 

So completely took the words out of my mouth on this one!
 

I agree but it's not just Bangalore or Beijing that we are out of kilter with, it's Germany, Holland, The UK and the USA etc. Remember that Lufthansa Technik has to tender for the overhaul of engines from many airlines (as well as private owners and private fleet managers) on a commercial basis. They are a repair-development agency and a certified warranty repair station for CFMI, IAE, GE and P&W engines.
 
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