LPT: Are owners afraid to disagree with Revenue's Estimate?

Bronte said:
And you can be assured I'll be sending in my proofs and a letter outlining my honest valuation of my property too. It's exactly what I'd planned to do once I heard how it worked. For no other self assessment did I ever have to do such a thing.
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And it won't be looked at. Your form is going to go to a centre to be processed, along with hundreds of thousands more, and nothing more. I don't know what will happen to the paper you attach, it might be scanned in somewhere and at some point maybe someone will look at it. But IMHO it's overkill, pure and simple.

And if your valuation does appear as an outlier (that's the word you're thinking of ;) ) in the final analysis, they'll almost certainly still make contact to ask you why, notwithstanding the paper you sent in previously.
 
If anyone thinks its a set bill that they just have to pay, it means that they haven't read the form, or the letter that goes with it or the website.... it couldn't be clearer, and it would be entirely their own fault.
 
mandelbrot said:
And it won't be looked at.

And if your valuation does appear as an outlier (that's the word you're thinking of ;) ) in the final analysis, they'll almost certainly still make contact to ask you why, notwithstanding the paper you sent in previously.
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I know they won't look at the supporting documents but if they do look at my file because it's an 'Outlier' (never heard that word before) then they will see my justifications and that should be the end of the matter. Or if they do contact me I'll refer them to it.
 
Magpie said:
If anyone thinks its a set bill that they just have to pay, it means that they haven't read the form, or the letter that goes with it or the website.... it couldn't be clearer, and it would be entirely their own fault.
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Very well said.

I think Revenue has made a big mistake issuing these estimates. Judging by comments on this and other sites it serves only to confuse the issue (and some media coverage doesn't help).
 
Bronte said:
I know they won't look at the supporting documents but if they do look at my file because it's an 'Outlier' (never heard that word before) then they will see my justifications and that should be the end of the matter. Or if they do contact me I'll refer them to it.
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If your return is queried you'll most likely get a letter from Revenue requesting you submit reasoning/supporting documentation. The chances are you'll have to re-submit what you've already sent and there could be further communications to seek clarifications etc.

It's unlikely to be as need and tidy as you predict.
 
Bronte said:
... And you can be assured I'll be sending in my proofs and a letter outlining my honest valuation of my property too. It's exactly what I'd planned to do once I heard how it worked. For no other self assessment did I ever have to do such a thing.
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This is exactly the process described to me by a Revenue rep on the telephone.

My issues were, as I pointed out earlier,

  • The valuation band of my home as decided by Revenue and
  • My entitlement to a full deferral
I was able to do both of these via the website, which the Revenue rep failed to tell me, and I await their request for proofs (as I also await their hard-copy LPT1)

So in advance of the May deadlines, I'm up-to-date and honest.

The way to tackle the issue of fear of Revenue and their powers would have been to contact local community groups and to assist elderly people to make on-line returns in local libraries. I have done this for a number of elderly neighbours and for neighbours whose first language is not English.

Shame on you Enda for the fear you have instilled in a vulnerable segment of our society.
 
mathepac said:
The way to tackle the issue of fear of Revenue and their powers would have been to contact local community groups and to assist elderly people to make on-line returns in local libraries. I have done this for a number of elderly neighbours and for neighbours whose first language is not English.

Shame on you Enda for the fear you have instilled in a vulnerable segment of our society.
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At last someone with empathy and compassion for those in our society who aren't as well equiped to deal with these matters as the rest of us are.

Magpie said:
If anyone thinks its a set bill that they just have to pay, it means that they haven't read the form, or the letter that goes with it or the website.... it couldn't be clearer, and it would be entirely their own fault.
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Did it ever occur to you that some elderly people's literacy skills are perhaps not as good as yours?

The old gentleman who lives near my rental property, who is just going to pay revenue's estimate out of fear, left school when he was 14 to support his family and thefore missed out on a proper education. He can read and write, but his comprehension skills are unfortunately lacking.
 
delgirl said:
At last someone with empathy and compassion for those in our society who aren't as well equiped to deal with these matters as the rest of us are.

Did it ever occur to you that some elderly people's literacy skills are perhaps not as good as yours?

The old gentleman who lives near my rental property, who is just going to pay revenue's estimate out of fear, left school when he was 14 to support his family and thefore missed out on a proper education. He can read and write, but his comprehension skills are unfortunately lacking.
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What is your suggestion to resovle this? The Revenue information leaflet that I've seen makes things as simple as can be done I think.

So, even though you've spoken to your neighbour and told him he doesn't have to pay the estimated amount, he is still going to do so. What could be done to make him change his mind? I'm interested in how this could be achieved, it's not a rhetorical question.
 
dereko1969 said:
What is your suggestion to resovle this? The Revenue information leaflet that I've seen makes things as simple as can be done I think.

So, even though you've spoken to your neighbour and told him he doesn't have to pay the estimated amount, he is still going to do so. What could be done to make him change his mind? I'm interested in how this could be achieved, it's not a rhetorical question.
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Perhaps Revenue shouldn't have put an estimate on the LPT1 at all, since from what I am reading, these estimates are mostly incorrect.

I advised the neighbour to go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau with his LPT1 form and the copies from the property price register I gave him to back up the lower valuation and they will help him to complete the form.

I think people who are unsure or cannot understand the forms will be more comfortable if they are helped by a family member or an official body of some sort such as Citizen's Advice.
 
I agree with Mandelbrot. There are many out there who are fearful of deviating from the Notice of Estimate from Revenue - and they are not necessarily old. Revenue has my house in Band 3 and I am fairly sure I am in Band 1. I am feeling a bit pressured to claim in Band 2 just in case, and I wonder if that isn't strategy on Revenue's part.
 
I have spoken to 3 elderly neighbours in relation to the LPT. They have gotten their revenue from revenue and their houses are "billed" in their own mind from revenue for Band 2. The houses are very obviously in Band 1. One of the people was relatively easily convinced but the other two were very much afraid of revenue. I convinced them eventually and I have paid it online for them. They are "hoping that everything will be ok"
 
Cloudnine said:
I agree with Mandelbrot. There are many out there who are fearful of deviating from the Notice of Estimate from Revenue - and they are not necessarily old. Revenue has my house in Band 3 and I am fairly sure I am in Band 1. I am feeling a bit pressured to claim in Band 2 just in case, and I wonder if that isn't strategy on Revenue's part.
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No, you don't agree with me, based on the above!

If I owned a house (and I don't), and I reckoned its value is less than 100k - based on anything realistic or tangible (the best source being a recent sale of a comparable property), then I'd be putting it down as Band1, regardless of anything in the letter from Revenue.

I also don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory nonsense about Revenue overstating values - go elsewhere and you'll find other conspiracy theories about them undervaluing properties so as to make people less bolshy about filing/paying. Both of these are nonsense, since Revenue have published a technical paper explaining in great detail how their valuation model was designed. Go away, read it, and then if/when you're in possession of full facts come back and set out your stall.
 
delgirl said:
Perhaps Revenue shouldn't have put an estimate on the LPT1 at all, since from what I am reading, these estimates are mostly incorrect.

.
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I agree with you in that revenue should probably not have put estimates at all, it's only caused more confusion.
 
My house was undervalued by 2 bands. I just completed online and upped it.

I think a lot of people are completely unaware of how the older generation views the world.

I help look after an elderly neighbour. He is 91. He is scared of the police. He has been robbed 5 times and will not report it.

He will grant the utmost respect to anybody in authority, even if it is just the 'gas man'. To him these are officials and must be correct in all things.

Luckily he does not have to pay the LPT but if he did there is no chance on earth that he would question the estimate.
 
No idea. Perhaps scared is the wrong word.... I guess he just doesn't want to bring attention to himself and be seen as a hassle. It must be a (multi) generational thing and related to fear/respect of all those in authority.
 
fraggle said:
No idea. Perhaps scared is the wrong word.... I guess he just doesn't want to bring attention to himself and be seen as a hassle. It must be a (multi) generational thing and related to fear/respect of all those in authority.
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My grandmother was like that. She wasn't scared at all in life and was a formidable women but is relation to authority she was as you described.
 
If some people of whatever age have an illogical fear of "the authorities" then it's surely something that those individuals need to deal with?
 
HA!

Clubman, when you are 91 and can't get out of bed without help and need to go to the shop for something I'm just going to shove you onto that hoverboard and push you down the hill and tell you to deal with it! :)

Figure out your own way back home :)
 
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