Low pressure in new bathroom

[dub_nerd]

Just had a complete bathroom makeover, new everything installed. Looks great but the water pressure in bathroom taps and toilet cistern is beyond abysmal. I have to say it was never brilliant, but toilet cistern now takes 11 minutes to fill and cold tap wouldn't rinse a toothbrush. Bathroom install only finished this Friday, obviously I intend to get onto them on Monday but would like to have some idea where the problem could be before the finger of blame gets pointed.

Traditional setup with hot water tank and loft header tank. Where do I even start looking for problems? Affects both taps and cistern so not specific to either. Both hot and cold taps are equally slow. There's a power shower which -- confusingly -- seems relatively ok. Mains water pressure is ok, I've checked all stopcocks are open in hot press, I can hear the header tank refilling when water is used.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Pinoy adventure]

1 establish if the taps are high or low pressure.
2 make sure the pipes supplied too whb & wc are completely free of sediment (especially living in a hard water area).
3 check if either basin or wc is connected via flexi hose (check there is no kinks in hoses)
4 check pipe work suppling both basin and wc are free from kinks ( you could pop a fitting off and see the flow from both h&c pipes,you will know straight away.

Power shower would have a separate supply pipe too basin & wc.

These are a few tricks us plumbers use for this sort of problem.

If none of the above is an issue maybe look into pumping the bathroom from the hot press which will give good pressure there but depending on a couple of factors.

 

[S class]

Might be a partial air lock.

 

[hazelgreen]

We always had poor pressure and following a makeover, the builder recommended a pressure pump. This is located in the 'hot press' and ups the delivery of water to all taps in the house. I am very happy with it but noise is an aspect we have to get used to.

 

[Sue Ellen]

This probably totally irrelevant but worth a try. When we got new showers and the water pressure was very low to them we were told to turn on shower as normal and then turn on water in basin taps nearby for a few seconds. It instantly raises the flow of water to the shower. I think the plumber's explanation was that it 'calls up the water to the shower'. Sounds mad to lay person but it works a treat and has done for many years

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I think the plumber's explanation was that it 'calls up the water to the shower'.

I use divining rods to call up the water.

But be careful and get an approved dowser.

 

[Sue Ellen]

Sounds mad to lay person but it works a treat and has done for many years

Same thing worked in relative's apartment and different plumber confirmed its use. so go figure

 

[Pinoy adventure]

We always had poor pressure and following a makeover, the builder recommended a pressure pump. This is located in the 'hot press' and ups the delivery of water to all taps in the house. I am very happy with it but noise is an aspect we have to get used to.

You can get an pump pad which stops the pump vibrating on the floor.

 

[dem_syhp]

You can get an pump pad which stops the pump vibrating on the floor.

Having lived in 3 properties with them, they reduce the noise, but they're still loud. My preference would be to get one that you could switch off, say at the wall.

 

[elcato]

It sounds like your pump is not working tbh. They're very basic with little that can go wrong but usually the capacitator needs changing to get it to prime.
IANAP

 

[jpd]

We had a pump replaced after 15 years service

The new pump and sound pad is very quiet - it's a Stuart Turner Mainsboost VariQ

 

[Pinoy adventure]

Having lived in 3 properties with them, they reduce the noise, but they're still loud. My preference would be to get one that you could switch off, say at the wall.

There is loads of different types of pumps like the grundfos Scala 2 which is almost silent,the Stuart turner Q is just as quiet.
Pumps come with feet and sum plumbers don’t install them,instead just leave them vibrate on the floor,while others screw them down too the floor.
I personally have installed about 2000 scalas over about 20 odd years and have had very little complaints about noise.those who did complain were mainly a bearing issue which creates the noise.

 

[hazelgreen]

I did get a vibration mat after work was done but was not able to get it under the pump. We do have a switch so it is 'off' at night/early morn.

 

[Pinoy adventure]

I did get a vibration mat after work was done but was not able to get it under the pump. We do have a switch so it is 'off' at night/early morn.

Was pump screwed down ?
If yes unscrew it and screw pump too the mat.
If not maybe the pipes was holding it in place,if so pipes need too be shortened by the thickness of the mat too hold it down.

 

[dub_nerd]

1 establish if the taps are high or low pressure.
2 make sure the pipes supplied too whb & wc are completely free of sediment (especially living in a hard water area).
3 check if either basin or wc is connected via flexi hose (check there is no kinks in hoses)
4 check pipe work suppling both basin and wc are free from kinks ( you could pop a fitting off and see the flow from both h&c pipes,you will know straight away.

Power shower would have a separate supply pipe too basin & wc.

These are a few tricks us plumbers use for this sort of problem.

If none of the above is an issue maybe look into pumping the bathroom from the hot press which will give good pressure there but depending on a couple of factors.

Thanks for the reply.

1. No idea if taps are high or low pressure. Cistern problem suggests it doesn't really matter. Have already had the plumber back and they checked there's no pressure limiter in the cistern.

2. Am in a very soft water area. All the plumbing in the bathroom is brand new as of a week ago, so that's not the problem. Piping in the hot press is all running vertically, so also unlikely. There is some sediment in the loft tank but not above the outflow pipe.

3/4. Don't know if flexi hose means any plastic piping, or a particular type? Yes, there's lots of plastic (all of it, really). I saw the old stuff come out and the new stuff go in. No kinks.

Re: power shower, yes, confirmed it has its own wider bore supply from hot press.

The fitting company has suggested two options: a) install a pump in the hot press (they spec'd a Stuart Turner Plastic Body 1.5 Bar Pump Single Twin Impeller), b) connect mains supply to basin and wc.

A couple of problems I see -- I gather the twin pump is for pumping both hot and cold supply. But we already have a power shower which can't have another pump fitted in line with it. I know there are two cold water feeds from the hot press to the bathroom, but not aware of two separate hots for shower and basin. Would that rule out the pumped option? Not to mention that a €530 pump plus €230 labour is pretty eye-watering just to get a toilet cistern to fill faster.

What about the mains connection idea? Is there any downside (other than the obvious one, that it might not improve anything). I presume the plan would be to take a tee off the mains pipe going up to the header tank. But how do I know what flow rate I can expect? The mains connected tap in the kitchen flows a very respectable 12 litres/minute, but obviously the bathroom is 3-4 metres higher. I plan to do a test with a garden hose connected to the kitchen outlet with the other end raised to bathroom height -- not very scientific but would give an idea of the effect of the additional head?

 

[Pinoy adventure]

Thanks for the reply.

1. No idea if taps are high or low pressure. Cistern problem suggests it doesn't really matter. Have already had the plumber back and they checked there's no pressure limiter in the cistern.

2. Am in a very soft water area. All the plumbing in the bathroom is brand new as of a week ago, so that's not the problem. Piping in the hot press is all running vertically, so also unlikely. There is some sediment in the loft tank but not above the outflow pipe.

3/4. Don't know if flexi hose means any plastic piping, or a particular type? Yes, there's lots of plastic (all of it, really). I saw the old stuff come out and the new stuff go in. No kinks.

Re: power shower, yes, confirmed it has its own wider bore supply from hot press.

The fitting company has suggested two options: a) install a pump in the hot press (they spec'd a Stuart Turner Plastic Body 1.5 Bar Pump Single Twin Impeller), b) connect mains supply to basin and wc.

A couple of problems I see -- I gather the twin pump is for pumping both hot and cold supply. But we already have a power shower which can't have another pump fitted in line with it. I know there are two cold water feeds from the hot press to the bathroom, but not aware of two separate hots

for shower and basin. Would that rule out the pumped option? Not to mention that a €530 pump plus €230 labour is pretty eye-watering just to get a toilet cistern to fill faster.

What about the mains connection idea? Is there any downside (other than the obvious one, that it might not improve anything). I presume the plan would be to take a tee off the mains pipe going up to the header tank. But how do I know what flow rate I can expect? The mains connected tap in the kitchen flows a very respectable 12 litres/minute, but obviously the bathroom is 3-4 metres higher. I plan to do a test with a garden hose connected to the kitchen outlet with the other end raised to bathroom height -- not very scientific but would give an idea of the effect of the additional head?

2 - if there is sediment get it siphoned out as it can get sucked into the pipe work which can block or restrict flow of water.
3 - more than likely Qualpex pipe,not ideal but does work,again any slight kinks will restrict the flow.
Flexi hoses connect directly too the taps or toilet cistern and are normally silver in Color & quite flexible.

The mains option might be easier and should give a decent flow rate as the water pressure from the public mains is plenty too fill a large tank normally in the attic so getting decent flow too a bathroom should be no problem.

 

[elcato]

OK. I thought originally you had a pump but that's not the case. I would get the pump in. Is it an apartment ? The problem is water pressure from your tank to bathroom which is probably on the same floor.

 

[Peanuts]

What about the mains connection idea? Is there any downside (other than the obvious one, that it might not improve anything). I presume the plan would be to take a tee off the mains pipe going up to the header tank. But how do I know what flow rate I can expect? The mains connected tap in the kitchen flows a very respectable 12 litres/minute, but obviously the bathroom is 3-4 metres higher. I plan to do a test with a garden hose connected to the kitchen outlet with the other end raised to bathroom height -- not very scientific but would give an idea of the effect of the additional head

How quickly does your tank in the attic fill up? That should give you a good indication of what flow rate you might expect.

 

[dub_nerd]

Thanks everyone for answers. I opted for the mains connection. Plumber is arriving in the morning. I did a not-very-scientific test by hooking a 10 metre hose up to the kitchen (mains connected) tap. Flow rate from the tap is about 12 litres per minute. I hoisted one end of the hose up to bathroom tap level and the flow rate reduced to 11 litres per minute. I also asked ChatGPT and it calculated a result based on the Bernoulli equation that was roughly consistent with what I measured. I'm assuming the fact that the new plumbing will come down from attic level will not change things, as only the difference in height between kitchen and bathroom should matter. Also hoping the plumbing does not impose any more friction than the hose. If I get anything like my unscientific test result I'll be deliriously happy. I guess I'll know tomorrow.

 

[elcato]

Not to create doubts but if you're area suffers from low pressure during the summer, it may affect you then.