Long term letting to County Councils.

Was just talking to someone who is doing this.
He let his apartment to Fingal CoCo 3 years ago on the LTL scheme for 10 years.
He said it was very straightforward in the end.
And about 3 months ago, realizing he would probably never live in the apartment again even after in another 7 years and is happy with 85% of market rent, he called them and asked did they want to change from 10 to 25 years. And they agreed. So no he is on a new 25 year LTL with them. He is happy, they are happy. Everybody is happy.
Which is more than I can say for landlords who I know who did rent allowance or HAP.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Or private tenants who are being priced out of the market by the state.

Brendan
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Thats true. Councils buying up and leasing huge amounts of property at the moment. Ordinary people cant get a look in at all.
But the RPZs have forced landlords to go for the easy more secure option. Makes you wonder if that was the intention of them all along. Force landlords out or to just lease to the state.
 
Villaines said:
Some recent experience on seeking to let a property to DCC under their LTL scheme:
  1. Their standards are very high. Their surveyors will examine the property top to bottom and "issues" that have never caused a problem in 100+ years of occupation of the house by its owners/private tenants will be show-stoppers for the council. For example, very small gaps in the party wall in the attic of a 100+ year old house will not be acceptable, if the windows are big enough to meet fire exit requirements but are not very large they may request that hinges are changed to increase the opening area.
  2. They offer no solutions in respect of the issues raised. Owner must resolve everything privately.
  3. There is no list of contractors/surveyors/certifiers that they require you to use to meet the requirements they set.
  4. The lease cannot be executed without appointing a lawyer. Presumably there is some sort of lien on the property that gets registered on the folio.
  5. There is a requirement to obtain the "consent" of the lender if there is a mortgage on the property. However, there is no prescribed form or standard wording.
  6. It is necessary to have the Council noted on the insurance policy, which the owner must retain. Some insurers may not be willing to provide insurance on a house let to the council/this type of letting may be regarded as riskier for the insurer and may attract a higher premium. The council offer no solution in this regard.
  7. Full certification is required in respect of electricity supply, fire alarm systems and gas supplies. This must be
  8. The property has to have a D1 energy rating or better. This may increase in the future.
  9. Oil/Gas boiler has to have been installed in the last 5 years or this is a show-stopper.
  10. All white goods have to be less than 6 months old with receipts/guarantees even if they are in perfect working order/high-end models - must dump anything more than 6 months old and replace with new or lease will not proceed.
  11. Council want a right of first refusal in event of sale of property during the lease term. This may mean the owner won't get full MV for the property if they have to sell.
  12. Tax Clearance certificate, NPPR certificate of discharge, LPT record.
  13. Exacting furniture requirements.
  14. No negotiation on rental valuation offered.
  15. No sense that there is a crisis of accommodation - if anything, they appear to have a good supply of property being made available and are in no rush to secure one-off properties.
Overall it's possibly simple enough for properties that have recently been refurbished from top to bottom, new builds or recently purchased buy to lets.

Has anyone gone through the process and if so, can they offer a ballpark for the cost of the legals, surveys etc.?
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Yes indeed , they go over the house with tooth comb prior to taking it on , making various demands for improvements which are borderline neurotic , once they then take over the house , they dont give a sh1t if the occupants wreck it within a week
 
I'm curious to the state they actually return them in after ten or twenty years.

Can you inspect the interior during the lease?
 
If your tenant is already under the HAP scheme, can you change to the Long Term Letting Scheme?
 
Picking up this thread again as I have a couple of questions. We are investigating the possibility of purchasing an investment property for our children to live in for college/early years of working, on the basis that we would purchase near where they would likely attend or sell and purchase a new one if that turns out to be a different location. Still very early exploratory spreadsheet musings!

Has anyone exited such a scheme? What happens to the tenants after say a ten year lease? Are they made aware at the start that they will be moving eventually? Has anyone struggled with getting vacant possession at the end of the lease? Would this be more likely if it is a house rather than an apartment on the basis that a house would be more likely used to house a family who would put down more roots, have children in local schools etc.

Has anyone experienced difficulty in getting insurance cover for a property in this scheme?

Has anyone experienced difficulty in getting approval from a bank to enter the scheme, assuming the property is already on an investment rate and is up to date on payments etc?

Has anyone experienced issues in getting approval from the management company of an apartment block to enter the scheme?

I assume that under RPZ that the ending rent paid by the council becomes the baseline for rent going forward. Any other impacts in that regard, or is this an incorrect assumption?

Has anyone entered this scheme after first entering the Living City Initiative? probably a question for the council as to whether the two are mutually exclusive. Or in reality the standards required for the long term lease scheme would make it too expensive to renovate an older property.

Thanks for any info!
 
Good questions! I'll have a go at the second last one.

Not sure about the ending rent being the RPZ baseline. The rent paid by the council to the landlord is definitely NOT subject to RPZ limits. That would suggest the relationship between landlord and council is not a residential tenancy within the meaning of the Act and thus falls outside the RPZ rules entirely.
 
misemoi said:
Picking up this thread again as I have a couple of questions. We are investigating the possibility of purchasing an investment property for our children to live in for college/early years of working, on the basis that we would purchase near where they would likely attend or sell and purchase a new one if that turns out to be a different location. Still very early exploratory spreadsheet musings!

Has anyone exited such a scheme? What happens to the tenants after say a ten year lease? Are they made aware at the start that they will be moving eventually? Has anyone struggled with getting vacant possession at the end of the lease? Would this be more likely if it is a house rather than an apartment on the basis that a house would be more likely used to house a family who would put down more roots, have children in local schools etc.

Has anyone experienced difficulty in getting insurance cover for a property in this scheme?

Has anyone experienced difficulty in getting approval from a bank to enter the scheme, assuming the property is already on an investment rate and is up to date on payments etc?

Has anyone experienced issues in getting approval from the management company of an apartment block to enter the scheme?

I assume that under RPZ that the ending rent paid by the council becomes the baseline for rent going forward. Any other impacts in that regard, or is this an incorrect assumption?

Has anyone entered this scheme after first entering the Living City Initiative? probably a question for the council as to whether the two are mutually exclusive. Or in reality the standards required for the long term lease scheme would make it too expensive to renovate an older property.

Thanks for any info!
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How old are your children? Presuming quite young if you're looking to rent out for 10 years.
I think the fact that no-one has probably exited the scheme yet should give you pause, is the scheme even 10 years old at this stage?
Why do you want to buy now rather than closer to the time of your children need the property?
Is it the case that eventually you'll want to buy them a place to stay near potential colleges that they might potentially go to? There are a lot of variables there where money is sunk for a decade, is the money burning a hole in your pocket at present?
If there's a referendum on the right to property who knows what impact that might have on long-term rentals.
For me it's way too early to do something like this on the promise of a maybe. Maybe your kids won't go to college, maybe they'll go abroad for education or jobs.
 
dereko1969 said:
Is it the case that eventually you'll want to buy them a place to stay near potential colleges that they might potentially go to?
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If you:
  • Live somewhere like Laois, where Dublin is an obvious university choice, but not commutable;
  • and have at least 2 children with aptitude for third-level;
  • and have a lot of free cash;
  • and don't mind the administrative and other hassle of being a landlord;
then it could suit you to buy an apartment in Dublin that your children might use in future.

But it's a lot of boxes to tick first.
 
We will have cash soon to invest, are on top of our pensions and have a low LTV in a house that is suitable for our needs - this being the case if we can have an independent place for our children to live during early student life/ early adulthood, which will be in approx 10 years. We are trying to find a low risk method of investing and this is one of the options...depending on finding the right property of course. While we could manage being a landlord, we would prefer not to, but would be happy to do the admin of tax, insurance etc that is involved in the LTL scheme.

In the event that they decide to follow the sun and head to Australia or elsewhere, the leases are extendable it would seem, or if the market was in a reasonable state we could sell. And you can be sure that we would be charging our kids rent if they do live in our property (in fact we should set the rent lower than the stay at home option to incentivise it :))

I am aware that laws, regulations etc can change, but so can pension levies, taxes etc. We just have to make the best choice with the information and goals that we have at the time. So posing the questions above so that we can gather as much info on the scheme as possible. But I am all ears if there is something else we should consider that would allow us to achieve the same goals!
 
How much will you have to spend on the property? There are apartments/houses suitable for LTL that might not be as suitable for your kids.
I'd probably pay off my home mortgage to leave wiggle room, a lot easier to raise a mortgage later if needed on your home than on an LTL property if you find yourself in a bind later on. Property is very illiquid.
 
I know someone who has been in this scheme for about 4 years now.
I was talking to him a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about contacting the council to extend it to 25 years. He is currently 4 years into a 10 year contract.
He must be happy with it if he wants to extend it already without even having done half his first contract.
 
What exactly are 'structural issues' that you are responsible for?

E.g. say someone driver through a garden wall pillar? Or a large tree needs pruning? Or the garden wall falls in. Or significant fire or leak damage? Is that on you to do?
 
OMG_OMG said:
I know someone who has been in this scheme for about 4 years now.
I was talking to him a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about contacting the council to extend it to 25 years. He is currently 4 years into a 10 year contract.
He must be happy with it if he wants to extend it already without even having done half his first contract.
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Has your friend had a rent review after 3 years and if yes, what sort of increase percentage can be expected?
 
Laughahalla said:
Has your friend had a rent review after 3 years and if yes, what sort of increase percentage can be expected?
Click to expand...

Raising this from the dead. - Has anybody had a review with the council yet and if yes, what % increase was given. Council are supposed to use HIPC but not sure how they calculate it and from what point in time it is calculated from.

Harmonised Indices of Consumer Prices (HICP) - Eurostat​


I'm guessing this calculator might be used but not sure what people are getting in reality

Interactive Data Visualisations | CSO Ireland

visual.cso.ie visual.cso.ie
 
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