London's Burning

[Deiseblue]

Sky news and BBC news - looters who have appeared befoee court, a primary school teahcer, a trainee social worker, a call centre employee, a postman - these are not the 'disadvantaged yoof'!!

It's certainly interesting that the adults charged to date certainly do not fit into the expected demographic in that the majority are white & of those a number are employed or are full time students.

In the interest of fairness - a " gentleman " who worked in a primary school appeared in court , he is not a teacher.

 

[monagt]

It is the society of the labour governments creation.

The party that has been in power for the current generation must be more culpable - Labour (eg, FF in Ireland)

Also, the Labour councils in the UK have destroyed the communities, have stalled real integration and wasted the tax payers money.

Why after Tony Blair reign is the UK economy a basket case? The ordinary Family know how to balance a budget and NOT get into unmaneagable debt.

So a bit off topic! and to return -
From an organic chef and an opera house steward to a university student, a surprising picture emerged on Wednesday of some of the alleged troublemakers behind Britain's worst riots for decades.
While many involved seemed to fit a picture of youngsters from broken families marginalised by society, the first court appearances of some of the more than 1,000 people arrested suggested a broader cross-section took part. Yahoo News

[broken link removed]

Interesting Stats

 

[Sunny]

This goes back a lot further than Tony Blair and Labour. How many communities did Thatcher destroy? The social problems did not just appear with the current generation. The seeds were planted well before now.

 

[Latrade]

It's getting serious now, Spurs/Everton game cancelled. Some reports saying Everton petitioned for it to be cancelled after fears from their fans that all the good stuff has already been stolen.

 

[truthseeker]

In the interest of fairness - a " gentleman " who worked in a primary school appeared in court , he is not a teacher.

Apologies Deise - thanks for the correction.

Interesting that the police have asked the media to 'film them as far down the streets as you can when they are leaving court'.

 

[monagt]

This goes back a lot further than Tony Blair and Labour. How many communities did Thatcher destroy? The social problems did not just appear with the current generation. The seeds were planted well before now.

What I was referring to was Labour council policies that have ended up with huge swathes of, for example, Pakistanis, where english is not spoken, they never interract with outsiders and so never become part of an overall society.
Nice people but you would think a spaceship beamed them over last week.

Its like Apartheid in reverse (the separate development part)

When you think of English young men, who have never been out of England will bomb their fellow citizens over something happening in a remote part of the world.
The same young men would be out of place over there.

Integration is the only way........................... not separate development cause its "their culture".

Off Topic again! ;(

 

[DB74]

It's getting serious now, Spurs/Everton game cancelled. Some reports saying Everton petitioned for it to be cancelled after fears from their fans that all the good stuff has already been stolen.

Very funny

 

[shnaek]

It's getting serious now, Spurs/Everton game cancelled. Some reports saying Everton petitioned for it to be cancelled after fears from their fans that all the good stuff has already been stolen.

That's a real shame. I was hoping to see Spurs new signing - Grabatelly - in action.

 

[Latrade]

What I was referring to was Labour council policies that have ended up with huge swathes of, for example, Pakistanis, where english is not spoken, they never interract with outsiders and so never become part of an overall society.
Nice people but you would think a spaceship beamed them over last week.

Its like Apartheid in reverse (the separate development part)

When you think of English young men, who have never been out of England will bomb their fellow citizens over something happening in a remote part of the world.
The same young men would be out of place over there.

Integration is the only way........................... not separate development cause its "their culture".

Off Topic again! ;(

You know that immigration and the establishment of immigrant ghettos went on before Tony Blair came into power?

Those Asian based areas of Britain have been in place since at least the 60s, the kids involved from those areas are 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.

Failure at immigration is first nothing new and second not to blame for these riots.

 

[monagt]

You know that immigration and the establishment of immigrant ghettos went on before Tony Blair came into power?

Yes - Labour Councils I blamed.

 

[mick1960]

young people are more prone to crime when they are deprived of a decent family, and if you feel that the current batch of 'scumbags' are only following the example of the 'middle/upper class looters', then can you tell me why do they never follow good examples? Why isn't there people ready to step up and try and better themselves?
It's too easy to look beyond the fact that there are workshy morally deficient idiots roaming the streets and offering nothing to society, moving the discussion back to 'the bankers and politicians are the antichrist' only helps to keep spinning a cycle of neverending moaning and little else.

To para phrase you
people are more prone to crime when deprived of a decent family

So what is the excuse for those from privaliged family's.?

workshy morally deficient idiots roaming the streets

And they are different from workshy morally deficient idiots roaming the corridors of power ?

offering nothing to society?

That is the sort of attitude that starts riots when adopted by the latter group.

There was no attempt on my part to move the discussion back to anything else. You are watching on the TV and reading in the News, what happens when the 'never ending moaning' falls on deaf ears and stops.

 

[mick1960]

Millionaire's daughter: Laura Johnson, 19, was charged with stealing £5000-worth of electronic goods

 

[csirl]

There were 100s of people arrested for looting. No doubt that a percentage were not from disadvantaged backgrounds. The media have quoted no more than a couple dozen cases of non-disadvantaged people who were arrested - as this is a better newstory than 100s of run of the mill petty criminals engaging in criminal behaviour. We are not being given any details of the 100s of others. I dont think that anyone can truely say that the bulk of the looters came from a mixture of backgrounds unless they have the circumstances of all those arrested, not just the aforementioned few.

As the saying goes, "one swallow doesnt make it summer..."

 

[horusd]

Some of those looters weren't just criminals they were damn stupid to boot. With so many CCTV cameras around the UK, you would think those muppets would have nicked a scarf and covered their faces. Doh! No wonder they're disadvantaged. There's no cure for stupidity.

 

[MrMan]

To para phrase you
people are more prone to crime when deprived of a decent family

So what is the excuse for those from privaliged family's.?

workshy morally deficient idiots roaming the streets

And they are different from workshy morally deficient idiots roaming the corridors of power ?

offering nothing to society?

That is the sort of attitude that starts riots when adopted by the latter group.

There was no attempt on my part to move the discussion back to anything else and you are watching on the TV and reading in the News what happens when the never ending moaning falls on deaf ears and stops.

I said 'decent' family you seem to be equating the same with the financial circumstances of a family. As many of the people that have come out from the same communities to denounce the looters, it is obvious that decent families exist on both sides of the tracks.

There are greedy mena nd women in power, and it has been discussed to death here and everywhere else, but mentioning them dilutes the discussion that is important here and that is how to deal with the criminality on display and how do we learn from it?

I don't quite get your last paragraph?

 

[shnaek]

I said 'decent' family you seem to be equating the same with the financial circumstances of a family. As many of the people that have come out from the same communities to denounce the looters, it is obvious that decent families exist on both sides of the tracks.

Hear hear. Society's values are what are called into question here. Not one section of society, but all of society.
Do we value the cause of the thieves, murderers and thugs over the cause of the decent and the hardworking?
Do we ask how we help the muggers, or how we help the families of the 5 (so far) who are dead, and the many whose lives have been destroyed?
Why is it so unfashionable to support ordinary law abiding citizens going about their lives and contributing positively to society?
It is nothing to do with financial circumstances. It is everything to do with responsibility and decency.

 

[JP1234]

I am getting wholly fed up with these criminals being spoon fed the "it's not your fault, you are disadvantaged...." excuses, which they are then using to justify their actions. Look at this from Sky News

[broken link removed]

16 year old stealing for his son!!!

I didn't have an easy childhood either my father took off when we were young and we regularly went without meals, had holes in my shoes, no winter coat, and so on but I have never looted, robbed, rampaged. Instead made the best life I could, don't own things we haven't paid for ourselve and have raised a fine young man with decency and values.

One comment I read yesterday was that for anyone convicted of looting the punishment should be that their victims are allowed to break down their front doors, ransack their house and steal all the good stuff...extreme and OTT yes, but hard not to agree it's what they deserve.

 

[polo1]

I am getting wholly fed up with these criminals being spoon fed the "it's not your fault, you are disadvantaged...." excuses, which they are then using to justify their actions. Look at this from Sky News

[broken link removed]

16 year old stealing for his son!!!

I didn't have an easy childhood either my father took off when we were young and we regularly went without meals, had holes in my shoes, no winter coat, and so on but I have never looted, robbed, rampaged. Instead made the best life I could, don't own things we haven't paid for ourselve and have raised a fine young man with decency and values.

One comment I read yesterday was that for anyone convicted of looting the punishment should be that their victims are allowed to break down their front doors, ransack their house and steal all the good stuff...extreme and OTT yes, but hard not to agree it's what they deserve.

I agree 100% on everything you said except the last sentence... which I sort of agree with but 2 wrongs never made a right
I think the persons who are responsible should be made clean up the streets paint sweep clean etc.. make them pay for what they done.. I am not sure that using the tax payers money locking them up in comfy prisons is the answer!

 

[mick1960]

I said 'decent' family you seem to be equating the same with the financial circumstances of a family. As many of the people that have come out from the same communities to denounce the looters, it is obvious that decent families exist on both sides of the tracks.

There are greedy mena nd women in power, and it has been discussed to death here and everywhere else, but mentioning them dilutes the discussion that is important here and that is how to deal with the criminality on display and how do we learn from it?

I don't quite get your last paragraph?

Without going over old ground it is good to see that you now agree with me that decent family's exist everywhere,which is in contrast to your original post.

I think rather than diluting the argument it adds to the the general discussion about cause and the solution and you can learn from it.

As for not getting the last paragraph that is very strange because it is a direct reply to a statement from you. If you had 'got it' and were able to have a more holistic view of the problem and I would have been a bit more inclined to discuss it further with you.

 

[mick1960]

I said 'decent' family you seem to be equating the same with the financial circumstances of a family. As many of the people that have come out from the same communities to denounce the looters, it is obvious that decent families exist on both sides of the tracks.

There are greedy mena nd women in power, and it has been discussed to death here and everywhere else, but mentioning them dilutes the discussion that is important here and that is how to deal with the criminality on display and how do we learn from it?

I don't quite get your last paragraph?

Without going over old ground it is good to see that you now agree with me that decent family's exist everywhere,which is in contrast to your original post.

I think rather than diluting the argument it adds to the the general discussion about cause and the solution and you can learn from it.

As for not getting the last paragraph that is very strange because it is a direct reply to a statement from you. If you had 'got it' and were able to have a more holistic view off the problem I would have been a bit more inclined to discuss it further with you.