Local authorities are giving out houses too easily

Re: no data

If local authorities can build houses relatively cheaply it just shows the enormous profits developers are making on similar size properties.
 
AIDS and houses

Protocol

I am astounded by the things you've said about the African AIDS crisis, such as "If male Africans are promiscious and sleeping around, it's not my fault, or the west's fault."

It's certainly not the fault of the AIDS-infected babies who are born as a result of such a coupling either. And women's rights in many African countries don't have a good track record either - how many women become infected as a result of non-consensual contraceptive-free sex? For example, The "west" stood by for far too long in Rwanda while many of the women that were lucky enough to escape slaughter by machete were gang-raped and infected with AIDS. How many African people don't have access to basic education to understand the issues involved in the first place, nevermind that access to proper contraception?

Contraception is not always widely available and/or affordable in Africa at the best of times. I don't have any data (but neither do you!) but I'd be willing to bet that the Western pharmaceutical giants producing condoms are not dropping them down in bales from aeroplanes. God knows, plenty of people in Ireland seem to have a hard time sorting themselves out contraception-wise - we're just lucky that AIDS is not so widespread here.

To make matters worse, AIDS treatments (such as they are) have been priced exhorbitantly by the Western pharmaceutical giants that developed them and only recently have generic alternatives become available and even then they are not cheap enough.

I find it particularly galling that the trials and research necessary in the hunt for an AIDS cure are carried out on the people of Uganda and for many people infected their only chance of prolonging their life by getting hold of the drugs, is to risk their (already shortened) lives in trials. And all so the companies can develop better drugs (or hopefully a cure) that they can sell to rich Western hospitals and then deny to the neighbours of very human guinea-pigs that had such an important role in their development.

Obviously none of this is directly anyone's fault, especially not the people who have been infected but trade structures and agreements in the developed world certainly don't help or give a fair shot at people from less well-off parts of the world. If we accept a responsbility for any human being beyond "us and ours", then surely each human being is as important as the next. I am an atheist but I do wonder if the decline in so-called Christian charity with all it's flaws just basically leaves a selfish void.

On the house front .. I live right beside a brand new Council estate of 36 houses in a small town. There are the usual rumours that 2 or 3 of the households could well afford their own but this is just the usual annecdotal stuff. I'm sure there are people that are good at "working the system" and that the line between those that deserve houses and those that don't is a fine one but I don't think it is bad system overall. What I do object to though is that the houses are built beside an old council estate and I thought that this kind of thing was going to stop to prevent "ghetto-isation". The quality of the build looks really good (private contractor) but the sites themselves are very small and there is no green area - I doubt planning permission would have been granted to a private residential complex in the same spot. It still feels like the Council are flinging them any old where because they are "only" council houses. Mind you, the "planning" dept in my local authority area is so bad it's practically an oxymoron.

Rebecca
 
Depopulation

I think a lot of the problem is that much of rural Ireland is rapidly being depopulated. Also the housing system as it stands practically invites fraud. The assessment of housing need is not backed up by a thorough investigation of the individuals circumstances. I know a single woman in her 30s who was housed by a housing association in one of our cities, who has a mother living in a 2 or 3 bed house 1 mile away, and who is working in the black economy which nearly triples what she gets on disability. She is basically a practiced social welfare cheat and gets away with it because she comes from a family of welfare cheats who know the system and teach each other to do the same. Most people wouldn't have the gall to fail to mention the fact that they were renting a house on rent allowance despite the fact that they could have lived rent free with their mother. Fair play to the government for limiting access to rent allowance last year as this was widely abused by people who had no need of housing. Once they get rent allowance its easier to get on the housing list.

By the way when I was growing up in Dublin in the 1980s almost everybody living in social housing seemed to actually work for the council . . .
 
Learning to work the system

Short anecdote. Sorry if this is feeding prejudices.

A good friend of mine used to work as a teacher in a fairly rough secondary school in Dublin. She had some children out one day on some sort of excursion, and she was taking the opportunity to try to get them to "open up". She asked one of the kids what he wanted to do when he finished school, and he replied that he wanted to go to some or other Nordic state (Sweden I think, but not sure). Intrigued and delighted to see some little bit of aspiration where none was expected, she asked why he wanted to go there

"Because they have a great dole system Miss - my brother is already up there"
 
Re: Learning to work the system

"Because they have a great dole system Miss - my brother is already up there"
This reflects more on the teacher than on the school-kid.
 
How?

How does it reflect more on the teacher?

One might have thought that it shows that poverty and low-incomes are often "inherited".

Or that if the parents or older siblings are on unemployment payments then the younger children might get the imprssion that it's OK to be on unemployment payments long-term.

Which of course it isn't.
 
Re: How?

Because the teacher (or the entire educational system) has failed that child. [And yes, fault lies with the brother/family too]
 
So we should as a society, specifically discriminate against one ethnic group, based on anecdotal evidence of other income/jobs? Charming eh?

As protocol says, its positive discrimination - these guys are being rewarded for being a drain on society. I do not know of any other group of people who are simply handed houses worth e340k - i'd be quite sure normal councile houses don't cost that much - and any i've seen (from the outside!) sure don't look too luxurious! Sure some of the tenants keep theirs well, but they are all usually very small.

Why should travellers be treated any differently than any other group??
 
Why should travellers be treated any differently than any other group??

Please provide evidence that travellers ARE treated differently.
 
a short list

Being given houses worth 330k by Clare County Council.

Not having to pay income tax, or not be chased after for income tax. I can understand why not, I would be very scared of them if I was an Inspector of Taxes.

I love the way the left-wing/Irish Times/RTE section of society always defends the travellers. Yet I bet they wouldn't like 20 caravans and associated scrap outside their front door.

Show me their P60s with their tax paid to society, and then I would be all for them getting extra help, etc.
 
here I go again

By the way, the teacher in that short description didn't do anything wrong.

Though the kid was badly reared.

I will get into trouble for saying that.
 
Re: here I go again

Please provide evidence that travellers ARE treated differently.

Did the council provide you with a nice 4 bed house worth €340k - down the country - prob €500k worth in Dublin?? Not me :(

(am trying to find a link to that story, but was on page 3 of the Irish times a couple of weeks ago)
 
Re: here I go again

Being given houses worth 330k by Clare County Council.
This (on its own) does not show positive discrimination. You need to also show that similar houses are not given to others on the housing list in Clare.

Given that the Revenue have gone after Lawlor, Haughey and whole pile of serious heavyweight criminals in recent years, I really don't think they are running scared of travellers.
 
give, not take

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Show me a travellers P60, their contribution to society.

I suspect you'll be a long time trying to find one.

But maybe I'm wrong.
 
Re: give, not take

And I've said before that I absolutely agree that travellers incomes should be taxed like the rest of us. I've no idea whether this happens in reality.
 
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