LIDL price variance IRL v France

[ubiquitous]

According to Eddie Hobbs a recent comparisonson of a Basket of Groceries in Ireland and in Europe even allowing for ALL of the usual excuses VAT, Rates, Insurance, Transport, Labout, etc, etc, etc, and on the other side the Lower Corporation tax.
The extent of the "Premium" being charged in Ireland was still over 20%.

Did Eddie include the UK in this analysis? After all the UK is the part of Europe from which we import the majority of consumer goods. The folks at www.rip-off.co.uk argue, with some justification, that its not all sweetness and light over there either. As someone who visits the North at least once a month and England or Scotland at least once or twice year, I refuse to accept that goods there are on average 20% cheaper. In fact on average, I would guess that overall prices are the same, maybe a couple of percentage points dearer here but no more.

On that basis, Eddie's analysis is flawed from the outset, unless of course if his definition of "Europe" starts at Calais. Then we are left with the other economic phenomena that are a feature of the continental economies but not (at least currently) of ours or the UK- high direct taxation of individuals and unemployment. We had our fill of this phenomena in the 1980s and early 1990s. Is Eddie really suggesting that we return there?

 

[BlueSpud]

Quoting alcohol price comparrisons is not a good idea, the tax differentials screw up things too much.

They must love Ireland, the cash they make per store must equate to a few stores in other countries.

 

[daltonr]

As far as I know it wasn't Eddie's analysis, it was someone elses report.
I assumed he was talking about Euro Countries.

I refuse to accept that goods there are on average 20% cheaper. In fact on average, I would guess that overall prices are the same, maybe a couple of percentage points dearer here but no more.

I don't travel to the UK as often as you but I was astonished at the value for money I got for a meal in a pub in Glasgow at lunch time. Even allowing for the exchange rate the an equivalent meal in Ireland would have been about 30% more expensive.

-Rd

 

[Grumpy]

Thats it in a nutshell, daltonr.
Except, its a pup we never ordered and will overpay for anyway.
The solution is a political one.
Who says voting is a waste of time?
Did anyone not vote to achieve the present state of affairs?

 

[daltonr]

Did anyone not vote to achieve the present state of affairs?

Some people did and do vote for it. But not in a ballot box. Their vote is cast every year in the Fianna Fail tent at the Galway races. And in their other "chats" with ministers and TDs. Some votes are cast by lobby groups who seem to have a particular ability to "get to" FF Back benchers.

Those who vote at the ballot (including me) have been taking a democratic placebo.

One of two things will happen at the next election. FF will win thanks to their SSIA trick or a lack of an opposition. They'll see it as an endorsment for more of the same.

or, Labour/FG/A.N Other will win. Raise taxes, Raise Spending, no service improvements will follow, they'll be kicked out after 1 term.

Repeat to fade.

-Rd

 

[getoffthepot]

Does it apply to your employer or business?

I don't believe it does. I'm in the Alcohol busines and we are screwed by the Irish Government with exhorbitant duty and vat rates.

 

[RainyDay]

I don't believe it does. I'm in the Alcohol busines and we are screwed by the Irish Government with exhorbitant duty and vat rates.

So how does your employer set the ex-vat ex-duty price of your products? Do you honestly believe that they don't set the price as high as they believe the market will bear?

 

[daltonr]

So how does your employer set the ex-vat ex-duty price of your products? Do you honestly believe that they don't set the price as high as they believe the market will bear?

That's completely off the point. The scenario you need to be considering in this country is a publican (or any other businessman) who is also a local counsilor or who's brother or best friend is a local counsillor and who blocks another business from opening up in the area.

In that situation the price that the market will bear is being artificially inflated by exploiting peoples needs and denying them competition.

You'd think to listen to you sometimes that Ireland is some sort of haven of competition and free market economics and the only one consumers have to blame is themselves. If that genuinely is your belief then you are WAY more naive than I would have assumed from your otherwise well informed posts.

-Rd

 

[RainyDay]

Thanks for your advise on what I need to consider, but if it's OK with you, I'll let my original question to getoffthepot stand - How exactly does his employer or business set their ex-vat, ex-duty prices?

 

[getoffthepot]

Thanks for your advise on what I need to consider, but if it's OK with you, I'll let my original question to getoffthepot stand - How exactly does his employer or business set their ex-vat, ex-duty prices?

Cannot answer this in relation to my business as to do so properly would reveal who my employer is and I am not prepared to do that.

 

[ubiquitous]

Why not? After all nobody here can personally identify you or anything.

Btw, the entire Irish alcohol industry (brewers, distillers, distributors and publicans) have been screwing the country for generations so, given that you work in the sector, your original "we are being screwed" complaint about Lidl (especially on the pricing of tonic water and soft drinks) now appears a bit hollow to say the least. Especially as Lidl have been brave enough to bypass the notorious Diageo/Heineken/Irish Distillers cartel and introduce their own cheaper drinks brands in recent years...

 

[RainyDay]

Cannot answer this in relation to my business as to do so properly would reveal who my employer is and I am not prepared to do that.

OK, so I don't blame you for not walking into my trap, but I'll make the point I was going to make once you confirmed that your employer (like almost every business I know) operates market pricing, i.e. sells at the highest price the market will bear, without damaging his long term relationship with his customers. So I reckon your employer is part of rip-off Ireland, and that's what pays your salary. You reckon my employer is part of rip-off Ireland and that's what pays my salary. Are we both right, or both wrong?

 

[daltonr]

Thanks for your advise on what I need to consider, but if it's OK with you, I'll let my original question to getoffthepot stand

It's not ok with me because you're dodging the issue and trying to put the blame for the current state of affairs back on the consumer when you go on to make the following point.

but I'll make the point I was going to make once you confirmed that your employer (like almost every business I know) operates market pricing, i.e. sells at the highest price the market will bear, without damaging his long term relationship with his customers. So I reckon your employer is part of rip-off Ireland, and that's what pays your salary. You reckon my employer is part of rip-off Ireland and that's what pays my salary. Are we both right, or both wrong?

Are you going to address the point I made above or are you going to keep singing from the PD Hymn sheet???? You still refuse to address that fact that Irish consumers in a wide range of areas are faced with a combination of

1. Cartels and Monopolies
2. State Sponsored Restriction of Competition
3. State Underfunding of Consumer and Competition Authorities
4. Rising Indirect taxes which are ultimately passed on to the Consumer

A surprisingly low number of businesses in Ireland operate market pricing in a free market. Bury your head in the sand if you like, at least your consistent in not facing up to the lack of value for money accross all areas from Taxes to High Street Prices.

-Rd

 

[RainyDay]

I'm pretty stunned that you seem to think I'm under some obligation to listen to you, or pay attention to you, or read your posts, or more particularly respond to your posts. I'll continue to respond to whatever posts or points that I choose to.

The words Pot, Kettle & Black keep springing to mind as you choose to ignore the issue about why all consumers reckon every business is a rip-off except their own.

 

[daltonr]

I'm pretty stunned that you seem to think I'm under some obligation to listen to you

You're not under any obligation to listen to me, but since you injected yourself into the discussion I'd have thought common decency would suggest you should at least answer a straight question.

The words Pot, Kettle & Black keep springing to mind as you choose to ignore the issue about why all consumers reckon every business is a rip-off except their own.

I don't know why you think I ignored your question. I answered it immediately. I said my business doesn't fit your theory. I also said that claiming businesses only charge the price that the market will bear needs to be considered in the context of those same businesses being involved in price fixing, or political influence of shut out competition.

I'll continue to respond to whatever posts or points that I choose to.

Of course it's a free country and a free board. if you want to avoid the tricky questions for fear of your "There's no problem" view falling apart, that's fine.

Don't worry about it it's not all that important if we agree on whether there's value for money in Ireland. What's poor value for me might be great value for you. That's Cool.

Interesting as this is, I won't be around for the next few weeks so I'll have to leave it here.

-Rd

 

[RainyDay]

I don't know why you think I ignored your question. I answered it immediately. I said my business doesn't fit your theory. I also said that claiming businesses only charge the price that the market will bear needs to be considered in the context of those same businesses being involved in price fixing, or political influence of shut out competition.

The question you're ignoring (possibly from fear of devestation your 'US good, Ireland bad' mantra) is why would someone who works in the drinks industry spout off about rip-off Ireland by criticising price differences between Lidl Ireland & Lidl France rather than focussing on their own industry? But I really would be interested in hearing how you set prices in your own business too.

 

[getoffthepot]

why would someone who works in the drinks industry spout off about rip-off Ireland by criticising price differences between Lidl Ireland & Lidl France rather than focussing on their own industry?

Why I spouted off ?

Alcoholic beverages are not a basic requirement like groceries for one.
Secondly - The high prices in the the drinks industry are primarily due to the greedy publicans and extremely high taxes.

I am entitled to spout off (I prefer 'highlight') when I see obvious price differences in the market as is everyone else.

The fact that you have targeted me because I have done so will not stop me or anyone else doing so. I don't have control over how my employer sets prices but it does not mean I am wrong to highlight the vast difference others (in this case Lidl) charge(s) for the same item in 2 countries.

 

[RainyDay]

Ok - I appreciate that 'spouting' may have been a bit harsh, and I'm not so much aiming my comments directly at you, more so at the general population who moan about rip-off Ireland without doing any kind of realistic analysis.

Why on earth would you expect Lidl to have similar prices here and in France? Even if you don't allow for market pricing, their cost bases would be entirely different. Labour costs are different. Property costs are different. Transport costs are different. Taxes & customs are different. Just about everything that goes into the price of the product is different. So the prices are definitely going to be different. You can't expect Lidl to pay staff Irish wages (which reflect Irish property costs, Irish food costs etc) and charge French prices.

And while I understand that you don't personally control your employer's pricing, you're not objecting strenuously when the results of that pricing arrives into you bank account each moth. This isn't a criticism - I'm exactly the same myself. But it's a bit hypocritical to moan/spout/highlight about market pricing in one sector while accepting the fruits of market pricing in another sector.

And let's not kid ourselves that only the publicans & the Govt make money in the drinks industry - the suppliers and the distributors do quite nicely too thank you very much. And do you really consider "tower fans, tonic water, freeway coke and pistachio nuts" to be some of life's essential items. They are no more or less essential than a bottle of beer.

 

[Guest127]

of course everyone selling a product tries to get what the market will stand. Michael O'Leary being no exception, except that he does also offer 'cheapies' in order to fill the seats in order to be able to up the ante as the planes etc fill up. good business. publicans dont run cartels but its as close as damit as a cartel when all pubs in the one area charge the one price for their products and the government are quite happy about this with Mary Harney spouting about 'shopping around' when the government themselves restrict the number of licences available. take the esb as an example of no competition.government money earner or public service or a little bit of both? as for petrol. I see that there is now going to be an objection to tesco every time they apply to open an garage forecourt. competiton obviously is too hot for the petrol retailers. back to drink. of course publicans are getting away with murder on the price of soft drinks and water where there is no government tax except vat. as for the price of beer etc most pubs charge €3 for a bottle of beer while the multiples can sell leading brands for €24 for 24, which is a straight markup of 200%. and as for the likes of Diageo who increase their prices year in year out but cry foul if the government add anything to the price at budget time ( which they havn't to the best of my knowledge for at least 4 years) but that doesn't stop diageo from their annual increase to which the publicans add another few cents and of course the govenment win automatically with vat being collected on the increased price. vicious circle. it doesn't stop me from going to the pub but by choice I now go less often and enjoy a drink at home more often. And I have replaced uncle arthur with beamish partly because its cheaper and to misquote another add ' I cant believe it's not Guinness'
Cheers

 

[CCOVICH]

most pubs charge €3 for a bottle of beer

Christ man, where are you living? In Dublin bottles cost around €4.50.