Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job

LDGantly said:
Irishlawgirl I feel you may find merit in this (http://groups.google.com/group/FE-1-Study-Group/browse_frm/month/2009-02) thread and would/should, from the sounds of your plight, join these people in their cause. (Click on the link and then scroll down to the "trainees-to-be and the recession" posts.)
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Thanks - had a read. Isn't it dreadful in a way that I feel better knowing that there are other people in the same, stinky boat that I am in!

Saying that - i'm glad i'm in a job. Touch wood it stays that way! This whole recession with jobs being laid off all over the place makes me put less emphasis on not having an ap'ship which is a welcomed relief believe me!! I bore myself with it sometimes - can't imagine what it's like to listen to me!
 
It appears that we have all departed from the original subject of this post. This subject is all over my mind at the moment. In essence, is it veasible to commence in blackhall on the basis of a 'no pay' apprenticeship?

It is my understanding that a law society regulation operates which, at its very foundation, places a requirement on the employer to offer minimum wage to all trainees. For everyone who has struggled through the fe1s and who has invested so much sweat in trying to progress into the elusive ppc1, it is almost impossible to swallow such an offer.

Apart from the fact that it creates a rubex cube of complexity in terms of finance, we also must consider the legitimacy of such an apprenticeship. It has been suggested by a previous member that this regulation appears prima facie to be inoperative by virtue of the fact that no complaint can be made to attract any query. There are so many of us willing to accept such an offer that any such complaint to the law society would be tantamount to career suicide.

My questions are therefore, If offered such an apprenticeship...

1) how in the name of buddha can it be financed?
2) Will i qualify despite contravention of the minimum wage regulation?
3) How many of us is there in this predicament?

Even if the reader has not been offered a 'no pay' apprenticship, your opinion on the subject would be much appreciated.
 
thestrangled said:
My questions are therefore, If offered such an apprenticeship...

1) how in the name of buddha can it be financed?
2) Will i qualify despite contravention of the minimum wage regulation?
3) How many of us is there in this predicament?
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1. That really is a question that only each individual wannabe solicitor can answer. Do they have enough personal funds to get through the qualification process or have they someone who will support them financially or would they be able to borrow (and are they confident enough to borrow such a large amount of money). Therefore it could really become a matter of the rich are more likely to succeed than the less well off which is a shame for the profession as a whole.

2. This is nothing new. Prior to the boom time people often qualifyed and were paid very little or nothing during their apprenticeship. The Law Society are highly unlikely going to ask where you paid during your apprenticeship. As long as you give them the fee for your application to the Roll of Solicitors and get the appropriate forms signed by your training solicitor they won't really care.

3. The Legal profession seems to be a constant rumour mill so it is very difficult to get an accurate picture. The facts as i see them are that the majority of legal firms are really feeling the down turn, some are really struggling and some have already given up the fight. This has caused a mass cull of staff within legal firms from partners to assistant solicitors to trainees to clerical staff there has been no area which has escaped. With so many offices letting people go and tightening their belts this greatly reduces the number of offices actively recruiting and increases the competition for places. I don't think they are that many offices that are actively looking for a "no pay" trainee. However if they are considering hiring a trainee and they get an offer from one applicant that they are willling to work for nothing then every other applicant will be compared against this. So if everyone applying for an apprenticeship agreed not to make this offer this would not be a problem. However there are people out there willing to do this therefore everyone else has to compete against them.
 
The law society recommend pay rates for trainees. Any solicitor whom you do not know personally (relative or the like) who employs you without paying, is, in my view, not someone that you should be learning from. There are enough rotten eggs in the profession without creating more. If there is no work for trainees that is worth paying for then there sure as hell is no work for them when they qualify. Do the people who want to be trained without pay want to continue working as solicitors without being paid? Where does this leave the client? Would you be happy having someone handling your personal affairs and possibly a lot of your money who is not being paid?

I was paid very little as a trainee in the 90's and got very poor legal training but learned a lot about how offices work (and can type very fast!). Luckily my first post qualification job was with someone who was interested in training and it was on the upward curve of the boom so there was lots of work to do. It's a bit like doctors, if you do not get enough practical experience you cannot do the job, this is true for trainees and solicitors. A lot of solicitors are quite underemployed at the minute and will be having trouble keeping their knowledge up to date. Solicitors are not hiring trainees because they don't have anything for them to do, they barely have enough to do themselves. I would have thought that having a smart, underemployed, unpaid person hanging around your office would be a huge liability.

Anybody looking for an apprenticeship should concentrate on the litigation firms and the long established with good reputations. There is always more lititgation in a downturn. I have moved from doing 70% non contentious two years ago to mainly contentious now, If things continue the way they have being going since the beginning of the year I would see jobs becomming available again towards the end of the year, but on the litigation side.
 
"I don't understand when you say it's not true that all the firms who will pay for b'hall are gone as I firmly believe they are."

Your belief notwithstanding, it is just not true. There are two apprentices in my office. One has been through PPC1 and one is there now. Both have had and will continue to have their Blackhall fees paid, along with the recommended ( and admittedly modest) apprentice pay. The firm down the street from me has one apprentice. They likewise pay - I know because I asked.

Maybe the firms in my town are atypical - but I don't think so. I would like to think that many small firms are doing their best to keep staff on and to invest in their future apprentices. Absent hard data, all I can really say is that at least some firms continue to pay apprentices' LS fees.

Where an apprentice is in an office on an understanding that it is just an apprenticeship and with no prospect of future employment, I acknowledge that the situation is somewhat different, in that the office has no real incentive to invest in the apprentice.

In my day, this was how it was done: my Master told me that I was welcome to turn up at the office as often as I liked, but not to expect money. An apprenticeship like this has its place - though many people would take the view that the 21st century is not that place.
 
Just wondering if anyone applied for the trainee solicitor job advertised by MOP in Feb? and if so, did anyone receive an acknowledgement of application or has anyone been called for interview?
 
Has anyone heard anything back from Lavelle Coleman? Or does anyone know whats going on there?
 
miak said:
Just wondering if anyone applied for the trainee solicitor job advertised by MOP in Feb? and if so, did anyone receive an acknowledgement of application or has anyone been called for interview?
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I emailed in and never heard back from them. Between now and that add I think they've let people go so it was rather random.
 
Hey guys

Just wondering, has anyone had any success of late in securing a training contract?
 
ellieg82 said:
Hey guys

Just wondering, has anyone had any success of late in securing a training contract?
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No, unfortunately.

Anyone heading to the Law Society seminar on securing a training contract? Anyone have any past experience of it? Would you recommend it?
 
Damn, i was hoping someone had some tales of success to share which might give me a boost....i'm so fed up with this, my job as a legal exec is mind-numbing!! I'm going insane.

I was at that seminar last year, pretty useless, they just emphasise the need to utilise your contacts, to fine-tune your cv etc etc. Great help....not. Save your money, buy yourself a few drinks instead and drown your sorrows!
 
I went to that seminar two years ago - I would consider it to be a waste of time - I left after two hours - right after - advice for your CV consisted of DOING A SPELL CHECK! Wasn't able for any more nonsense.

I think there may only be 300 in b'hall this year! Can't imagine Cork even opening their doors! I wonder will the Law Soc extend the expiry date of the FE1's - currently it's five years from the date of the last exam passed.
 
The seminar is a complete waste of time, 3 hours on writing a cv and hours on how to dress for an interview. stuff you heard in college and even at school. Even the solicitors who were meant to come in from the top firms to offer advice didnt turn up the year I went it was terrible.

I'm currently trying to bribe all these politicans looking for votes in the upcoming elections to get me an apprenticeship or at least give me some contacts..................its work a try people ;)
 
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