Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job
- Thread starter Gabrielle
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lawstudentjq
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i'm extremely worried about getting a legal apprenticeship especially after reading the last 4 pages of this thread. if i'm 100% honest i didn't really apply myself during my law degree eventually scraping through with a 2:2 i did work a lot doing promotions and call secretarial work. at the moment i'm studing for 4 fe1's. is it at all possible to secure a legal apprentiship with a 2:2?? my plan was to get all 8 fe1's, i should be able to get some work experience in a law office during that time and i was going to attempt the new york bar before applying. that means fingers crossed i'd be applying to blackhall anytime in from july 08 onwards. do i realistically have a chance, i'd be very grateful for any advice anyone has. ps i'm not actually bad at law per se, i occassionally got 1sts and usually 2:2's in my essays etc during college.
Oilean Beag
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Getting an apprenticeship seems to depend on alot of things.... not just your academics. Any extracurrricular activities shoule be emphasised. I would express a note of caution about the new york bar. Do a search here for a thread on 'post grads for a budding solicitor' & you will see some very good advice I recieved when considering it earlier this year. I recently heard of a girl who is going back to sit it for the third time now & she was very capable in college & has y all means taken it seriously.
Ana, I know Arthur Cox have issued invites to interview/pfo's and MOP will do so next week.
Ana, I know Arthur Cox have issued invites to interview/pfo's and MOP will do so next week.
Hi,
I'm looking for an apprenticeship at the moment. I had an interview yesterday in a firm in the IFSC which was a complete disaster, very unnerving. I have a group interview with Arthur Cox in two weeks time and was wondering if anybody has any interview tips or has ever been to a group interview? There will be 8-10 applicants in the interview. I am curious as to how many applicants they have selected since I estimated that the firm yesterday interviewed at least 50 for two positions. I checked the McCann Fitzgerald website and see that they were due to send letters to all applicants today. I would absolutely love to train with them.
I am a Psychology graduate and finished the FE1s in October-awaiting results. I have no contacts in the legal field and am very anxious at the level of competition for traineeships. I am working as a legal sec at the moment which is the one point that seemed to impress the interviewers yesterday. Anything else I said met with stony silence, particularly when I said I was interested in litigation!
Thanks,
Brenda
I'm looking for an apprenticeship at the moment. I had an interview yesterday in a firm in the IFSC which was a complete disaster, very unnerving. I have a group interview with Arthur Cox in two weeks time and was wondering if anybody has any interview tips or has ever been to a group interview? There will be 8-10 applicants in the interview. I am curious as to how many applicants they have selected since I estimated that the firm yesterday interviewed at least 50 for two positions. I checked the McCann Fitzgerald website and see that they were due to send letters to all applicants today. I would absolutely love to train with them.
I am a Psychology graduate and finished the FE1s in October-awaiting results. I have no contacts in the legal field and am very anxious at the level of competition for traineeships. I am working as a legal sec at the moment which is the one point that seemed to impress the interviewers yesterday. Anything else I said met with stony silence, particularly when I said I was interested in litigation!
Thanks,
Brenda
thanks,I hadn't applied to cox, but was concerned about the others. MOP's the end of this week not sure about the rest but hopefully they'll let everyone know soon and end the waiting game
just checked mop site --> apparently they're recruiting primarily for 2008 and 2009!!!
just checked mop site --> apparently they're recruiting primarily for 2008 and 2009!!!
I didn't apply to MOP because I want to start next Sept, didn't realise Arthur Cox was recruiting for 2008 as well though, takes so long, urgh! I'm going to ring Arthur Cox and ask them how many people they actually invited to group interview because they are interviewing for two weeks solid!
E
EI321
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Im thinking of changing to a law degree to become a solicitor. So I take it that only the large firms will pay for your blackhall fees? What about trainee salarys, what are they like?
The minimum rates of pay for trainee solicitors are set out on the Law Society website. Few rural firms will pay more than the minimum. The wages are not terribly bad - though it would be hard to live on them;
From the employer's perspective, there is a poor enough economic return on a trainee and it would not be the case that you could regard them as a cheap labour supply. They cost about the same as a secretary, and are usually less productive.
If solicitors did not have to pay a minimum wage, it would be easier to secure a training contract, though of course there would be more exploitation and it would discriminate in favour of those who can afford to be without a modest wage.
An increase in trainee wages would make it harder again to secure training contracts.
I think the Law Society have the balance about right.
From the employer's perspective, there is a poor enough economic return on a trainee and it would not be the case that you could regard them as a cheap labour supply. They cost about the same as a secretary, and are usually less productive.
If solicitors did not have to pay a minimum wage, it would be easier to secure a training contract, though of course there would be more exploitation and it would discriminate in favour of those who can afford to be without a modest wage.
An increase in trainee wages would make it harder again to secure training contracts.
I think the Law Society have the balance about right.
E
EI321
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And I quess that only large firms will pay the societys fees? I would not have much of a problem working outside city during the trainee period if it was the only realistic employment option. BTW what is it like to study law in college, in terms of study hours required per week?
I'm not sure you're right about trainees not being cheap labour MOB. After PPC2 the pay is €380 per week net. Only the most inexperienced secretaries would be on that I would think. From my own experience and that of other trainees I know, we are paid about €10 an hour and charged out at about €200. There's some serious profit there if you have a decent trainee!
EI321, yes only the top 10 or so firms will pay your fees, though some smaller ones will make a contribution. Most apprenticeships are in Dublin. Study hours in law would depend entirely on your level of motivation!
EI321, yes only the top 10 or so firms will pay your fees, though some smaller ones will make a contribution. Most apprenticeships are in Dublin. Study hours in law would depend entirely on your level of motivation!
"From my own experience and that of other trainees I know, we are paid about €10 an hour and charged out at about €200."
I don't have much familiarity with billing practices in large Dublin firms, but €200\hour for a trainee sounds outlandish. I rarely charge that myself. I would have thought that anything more than €70\hr would be very hard to defend until a trainee had at least a year under his\her belt.
To get the true cost of a trainee, you need to take the total cost over the training period and then look at the number of weeks they actually spend in the office. By this measure, a trainee is equivalent to pay of circa €26k per annum for the hours actually worked. A secretary in a rural firm could be on as little as €20k (though €26-30k is more normal) and a good secretary is undoubtedly more productive than a raw trainee.
Without a doubt, a good trainee can more than pay his\her way; but in a rural setting they are certainly not cheap labour .
I don't have much familiarity with billing practices in large Dublin firms, but €200\hour for a trainee sounds outlandish. I rarely charge that myself. I would have thought that anything more than €70\hr would be very hard to defend until a trainee had at least a year under his\her belt.
To get the true cost of a trainee, you need to take the total cost over the training period and then look at the number of weeks they actually spend in the office. By this measure, a trainee is equivalent to pay of circa €26k per annum for the hours actually worked. A secretary in a rural firm could be on as little as €20k (though €26-30k is more normal) and a good secretary is undoubtedly more productive than a raw trainee.
Without a doubt, a good trainee can more than pay his\her way; but in a rural setting they are certainly not cheap labour .
D
dats_right
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Good luck folks!
Oilean Beag
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Here they are on the Law Soc website.....
[broken link removed]
Could not find out anything about firm on a quick google search.
[broken link removed]
Could not find out anything about firm on a quick google search.
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EI321
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OK serious decision time. Im currently in thrid yr of an architecture degree. Have wondered since day one if it has been right for me as I have always been interested (and had the LC pts for) in law with the eventual aim at becoming a solicitor. Im considering changing to a law degree next yr and am trying to weigh up my options. How easy is it to get an apprenticeship first time???? Any advise appreciated.
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dats_right
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cv[broken link removed]
dats_right, interesting to hear you mention that a law degree is not necessary to become a solicitor. What would be your opinion on a science degree holder going into this profession?
I was looking at pursuing a career in patent law. What seems to be the norm is for scientists to train at a speciality IP firm. After three years of this you can sit the European Patent Offices’ exams and become registered as a European Patent Attorney.
Looking at the profiles of the partners involved with IP at the larger Dublin general law firms, I have not seen many with a science background. Do you think that general law firms would look favourably on a science degree holder with FE–1’s or should I just concentrate on the IP firms?
I was looking at pursuing a career in patent law. What seems to be the norm is for scientists to train at a speciality IP firm. After three years of this you can sit the European Patent Offices’ exams and become registered as a European Patent Attorney.
Looking at the profiles of the partners involved with IP at the larger Dublin general law firms, I have not seen many with a science background. Do you think that general law firms would look favourably on a science degree holder with FE–1’s or should I just concentrate on the IP firms?
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Oilean Beag
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Absolutely excellent advice from Dats-Right.............
Qualification as an architect leaves the option of either career. The law is not for everyone, and IMO architecture is very secure safety net should you change your mind & also could give you an edge in terms of experience over other candidates for an apprenticeship.
Once you have your FE 1's securing an apprenticeship 'first time' is no mean feat & I think if the law is really what you want you will try again & again until you get something. In the meantime you could be gaining more relevant experience by working in a solicitors ( & saving some of those wages for the inevitable downturn your salary will take as an apprentice !)
Wishing you the best in whatever you decide. Your position is at the moment a strong one
Qualification as an architect leaves the option of either career. The law is not for everyone, and IMO architecture is very secure safety net should you change your mind & also could give you an edge in terms of experience over other candidates for an apprenticeship.
Once you have your FE 1's securing an apprenticeship 'first time' is no mean feat & I think if the law is really what you want you will try again & again until you get something. In the meantime you could be gaining more relevant experience by working in a solicitors ( & saving some of those wages for the inevitable downturn your salary will take as an apprentice !)
Wishing you the best in whatever you decide. Your position is at the moment a strong one