Duke of Marmalade
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Agree re the gap, despite a respectable B in higher level maths in LC, found it very tough going to get a pass in 1st year as an ancillary subject .I always thought leaving cert mathematics was not thought to a higher enough level in order to move to university level mathematics even 30 years ago, the gap was too big and thats why many first year university students were failing their first year in technical subjects. I think the A levels are alot better in this regard as they allow students to specialise in subjects they are good at and does not have the big gap to third level standards
I think part of the issue is some teachers focus on doing well in the LC and teach how to answer LC questions. Students can answer LC questions very well but may not have an understanding of what they're doing. I've seen lots with LC higher level maths struggle in college, while some with ordinary level get on fine.Agree re the gap, despite a respectable B in higher level maths in LC, found it very tough going to get a pass in 1st year as an ancillary subject .
I think Maths is one subject where you can't fake it, while you might be able to "learn" how to answer some questions without really understanding it, that might get you a pass but it definitely won't get you a high grade .I think part of the issue is some teachers focus on doing well in the LC and teach how to answer LC questions. Students can answer LC questions very well but may not have an understanding of what they're doing. I've seen lots with LC higher level maths struggle in college, while some with ordinary level get on fine.
Having shared a class in college with two students who previously thought LC maths, I was shocked at how bad they were at maths, both failed end of term maths exams. But for a LC topic, they could do examples from memory. They could get away with teaching it as they had the answers. I'd say if they were questioned on why something was done a certain way, they'd fob the student off.Also the level of maths of some teachers in secondary school is not high yet they are still able to teach it
As someone who went through the NI A-level system I always wondered about this gap risk with LC done at a year younger (I think) and on a diluted syllabus. But if a gap exists are not the universities to blame?
Also the level of maths of some teachers in secondary school is not high yet they are still able to teach it
In my perception the level of difficulty is to some degree psychological.I came across an interesting "review" of LC maths and where it ranks relative to other High School mathematics exams. Skip to 2:08 for the ranking (it's in the middle).
Oxford University Mathematician takes Irish High School Maths Exam
University of Oxford Mathematician Dr Tom Crawford sits the Irish leaving Certificate Mathematics Examination taken by high school students in Ireland. The p...www.youtube.com
I believe from friends in the profession, there is a real difficulty in recruiting Maths/Physics teachers.
I have to say, the skills of the graduates entering my profession is really high. If there is dumbing down of mathematical skills at LC level, it does not manifest by the time they graduate. Relatively, we score very well in maths and science in the PISA exam and have the highest number of STEM graduates in the EU27, including the highest number of female STEM graduates.
My son is studying History in UCD and I’m constantly surprised by how easy it is but I’ve been reading history books for over 30 years. I’m sure I would have struggled with it when I was 19 or 20.In my perception the level of difficulty is to some degree psychological.
The school curriculum suddenly seems not so hard when you're presented with a higher level in university.
When you perceive something to be the apogee it can attain an aura it doesn't merit.
Have we finally found Joxer from Ballyfermot ?I had a German girlfriend when I was a teenager (more than 30 years ago). She said that she was surprised by how easy higher level leaving cert maths was when compared to the German equivalent.
I'm not from Ballyfermot. Other than that though...Have we finally found Joxer from Ballyfermot ?
yes exactly and I agree with that, I would have preferred to concentrate on maths , science economics and drop irish or some other subject. I think if leaving cert mathematics as is now the case is not taught to an adequate level in order to move to university level mathematics, engineering and science courses then the department should be honest about it and not be dropping students in at the deep end when they choose those subjects at University. There should be a choice to study another maths subject at leaving cert that does bring them to University level. I for one did not get a thorough maths education at LC I only really understood the fundamental concepts by 2nd year in University and I bet many leaving cert teachers do not understand it themselves even though they are teaching it.Some people have suggested bringing in an A-Level type system to Ireland. In that way, a student planning to become a doctor/scientist/engineer would drop (or go to pass level?) things like English, Irish, modern/ancient languages, history, economics, etc.
In my perception the level of difficulty is to some degree psychological.
The school curriculum suddenly seems not so hard when you're presented with a higher level in university.
When you perceive something to be the apogee it can attain an aura it doesn't merit.
I had a German girlfriend when I was a teenager (more than 30 years ago). She said that she was surprised by how easy higher level leaving cert maths was when compared to the German equivalent.
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