Sorry, I forgot one important detail here. After the original tennants moved in (and after a "verbal contract" was agreed), they sought, and were given verbal permission to rent the other room to at most two more people. At the time, the landlord didn't mention anything about an extra cost being involved. It was only a week later when keys for the sub-tenants were required that he decided he wanted more money.
Since the original incident occured, the landlord has actually entered the property without requesting permission from the tenants. To date, the tenants are fully paid up.
Sorry, I forgot one important detail here. After the original tennants moved in (and after a "verbal contract" was agreed), they sought, and were given verbal permission to rent the other room to at most two more people. At the time, the landlord didn't mention anything about an extra cost being involved. It was only a week later when keys for the sub-tenants were required that he decided he wanted more money.
Since the original incident occured, the landlord has actually entered the property without requesting permission from the tenants. To date, the tenants are fully paid up.
There was no attempt to sublet in this case.
Here's the scenario.
Landlord rents a 2-bedroomed apartment. A couple move in and take one of the bedrooms with the intention of sub-letting the other room out. At the time, the landlord is not aware of this.
ubiquitous, I know that the OP refered to the arrangement as a sub-let but in fact it is actually not. To sub-let, the original tenants would have to enter a legal agreement between the sub-tenants, and would effectively become their landlords. If someone moves into a property and shares the rent they are licencees. There's a big legal difference here. Sub-letting strictly requires permission from the landlord however a licensee arrangement does not necessarily.
What are the differences between Sub-letting and licensee arrangement.
The landlord is perfectly within his rights to dictate how many he wants in the property but he needs to have a lease in place to dictate this, otherwise it's at the tenants discretion to allow licensees on the property.
Sorry, I forgot one important detail here. After the original tennants moved in (and after a "verbal contract" was agreed), they sought, and were given verbal permission to rent the other room to at most two more people. At the time, the landlord didn't mention anything about an extra cost being involved. It was only a week later when keys for the sub-tenants were required that he decided he wanted more money.
Since the original incident occured, the landlord has actually entered the property without requesting permission from the tenants. To date, the tenants are fully paid up.
Also I ment to say that legally the landlord has no right to enter the property without an arrangement or to do emergency repairs.
Do Landlords have any rights to refuse Licensees using their property. Or is this something you'd have to put in a contract?
I can assure you, it was not a "last minute change of mind". At the time, I was in a rush to type out the full details of my situation, I didn't realise the information I left out was so pertinent.You've just changed the whole context of the thread entirely. For me the original story is more credible, and especially since its more consistent with a last minute change of mind, like you've just done. That may be just be unfortunate conincidence.
Afuera is correct, I used the term sub-leasing incorrectly. Before my partner and I moved in (but after a verbal lease agreement was agreed upon on commencement of tenancy), permission was sought by the landlord for an extra two people to be allowed in the apartment. He gave this the OK without stating an increase in rent would be required. It wasn't until a week later when additional keys were requested that he demanded more rent.Afuera said:ubiquitous, I know that the OP refered to the arrangement as a sub-let but in fact it is actually not.
Incorrect, he is a professional landlord (i.e. he makes his living as a landlord).sam h said:I would guess this is a "first time" landlord as it's is mad to let anyone rent your house without a lease.
As far as I know the landlord's permission is not required if you want to add an additional licensee, although the details of the licensee do need to be passed on to him. Once a new licensee is in place they can request the landlord to make them full tenants (which he can't reject, unless for a valid reason, such as overcrowding, breaking the terms of the lease, etc.). The fact that in this case the property is registered with the PRTB and says that it is suitable for 4 people would mean he has no grounds for denying the extra people here.I suppose the question now is, can a landlord give permission for additional licencees renege on this verbal agreement?
The licensee would request to become a full tenant (and the landlord would generally be obliged to allow this). Their tenancy would be deemed to have begun when the original tenant moved in. The deposit for the apartment would not be returned until the tenancy is terminated, so the usual way it would work is the licensee would give the deposit back to the original tenant and then receive their deposit from the landlord when they move out and the tenancy ends.I'd say it has potential to just get complicated. What happens if the tenant moves out and the licencee stays?
The law doesn't say that this is necessary, but it would probably be wise to have something in the lease to that effect.In my opinion if theres going to be a change in people living there a new contract should be drawn up covering everyone. So that people are clear what their responiblities are.
As far as I know the landlord's permission is not required if you want to add an additional licensee, although the details of the licensee do need to be passed on to him. Once a new licensee is in place they can request the landlord to make them full tenants (which he can't reject, unless for a valid reason, such as overcrowding, breaking the terms of the lease, etc.). The fact that in this case the property is registered with the PRTB and says that it is suitable for 4 people would mean he has no grounds for denying the extra people here.
[broken link removed]Rights as a tenant in private rented accommodation
You are entitled to have friends to stay overnight or for short periods, unless specifically forbidden in your tenancy agreement. You must tell your landlord about an extra person moving in.
[broken link removed]Rights as a landlord
decide whether to allow the tenant to sub-let or assign a tenancy (however if you refuse to allow a tenant to assign or sublet a tenancy this refusal can gives the tenant the right to terminate a fixed-term tenancy before its expiry date).
...terminate a tenancy without giving a reason during the first six months.
That is correct.So a tenant moves in with the intention of adding licencees but doesn't tell the landlord this till after they move in. Then when ask the landlord agrees verbally. But once you ask for keys can he have 2nd thoughts and back out of it?