L Platers

[howareya]

Past30 just read your thread and i must say it was excellent. i agree with everything that has been said. Any chance of you running in the next election???? We might get something done then

 

[Sarah]

I did 10 driving lessons at a cost of €280 which is quite good considering some of the prices around and only being driving for 4 months(with the L plates displayed both front and back of the car) but still very cautious which i dont think is a bad thing...i think when you have been driving any length of time you become complacent and therefore more relaxed about rules and regulations. I am on my first driving licence, sat the theory test which was a great thing in my opinion as if i had applied for it years ago like most of my friends i would have just recieved it in the post, at least this way i am more aware of road regulations. I needed a car as transport was proving very difficult to and from the trainstation (ie no shuttle buses or near by bus stops ect)So i regulary drive to and from the train station unaccompined, i abide all of the road rules bar driving unaccompinied and am contantly aware of my surroundings and other drivers, i abide by all speed limits, much to the annoyance of other drivers (who do not seem to be learners as there are no L plates up in the car)who overtake on dangerous bends and unbroken white lines. I am applying for my test next month...which means if i pass i should be a fully licenced driver in mmm...about 3 years jusdging by the backlog. My point is, i am a very careful driver, just because i am still a learner does not make me irresponsible or dangerous or a threat on the road...its drunk drivers,road rage,speed demons and ignorance that make the road unsafe , not to mention pedistrians who think they have the right of way in any suitation and never look crossing roads! Its unfair to say that L drivers are dangerous/stupid/ect. Rant over.

 

[MargeSimpson]

But I think the point is that no matter how careful an L-plate driver you think you are - the system should not allow learner drivers out onto the road until a sufficient amount of tuition has been received.
A first year med student is hardly allowed to perform open heart surgery, and I don't think that this is an exaggeration as a vehicle is a weapon in the wrong hands.

 

[Humpback]

More Gardai, more gardai, more gardai. Get them out on the roads

This is ridiculous. More gardai are never going to moderate peoples driving. It's the responsibility of every individual driver themselves to stop the number of road deaths.

Bad roads don't kill people. Lack of Gardai doesn't kill people. Lack of random breath testing doesn't kill people. And poor driver testing policies don't kill people.

People driving cars kill people.

 

[Sunny]

How many people holding full licences today would pass the same tests being suggested for learner drivers. I agree the system needs an overhaul but every driver should be made face any new testing procedures brought in and not just people learning to drive. (maybe a logistical impossibility but Uncle Gaybo might be able to do something)

 

[ubiquitous]

As far as I am concerned the three main causes of accidents causing deaths are a combination of speed, drink and inexperience of driving.

I don't agree actually. Our urban centres are full of drivers who speed, who drink and who are inexperienced, yet the vast majority of road deaths occur in rural areas. Obviously speed, drink and inexperience cause deaths everywhere, but if they were really to blame in the majority of accidents, the spread of fatalities would be more evenly spread.

In my opinion the main risk factors lie elsewhere. The most obvious is basic human error. In this category I would include failure to concentrate, overestimating one's capacity to drive, overestimating one's ability to overtake safely, failure to anticipate a bend, and failing to spot hazards such as pedestrians etc. Its popular nowadays to blame drink and breaking speed limits but a substantial proportion of accidents involve neither. Other factors such as tired drivers, poor quality of roads and failure to safely accommodate pedestrians, cyclists and slow moving vehicles like tractors on roads are equally to blame. They tend to be ignored in most public discourse on the subject because there are no obvious short-term solutions.

 

[Humpback]

IIn my opinion the main risk factors lie elsewhere. The most obvious is basic human error. In this category I would include failure to concentrate, overestimating one's capacity to drive, overestimating one's ability to overtake safely, failure to anticipate a bend, and failing to spot hazards such as pedestrians etc. Its popular nowadays to blame drink and breaking speed limits but a substantial proportion of accidents involve neither. Other factors such as tired drivers, poor quality of roads and failure to safely accommodate pedestrians, cyclists and slow moving vehicles like tractors on roads are equally to blame. They tend to be ignored in most public discourse on the subject because there are no obvious short-term solutions.

If you add into this mix, something that I've noticed from all of the notices and news items regarding road deaths, most of the time people are killed fairly close to their homes, in their own locality.

I think that this shows that there's a certain level of complacency involved in the causes of these accidents - a case of familiarity breeding contempt for the rules of the road, local road conditions and other local road users.

 

[MargeSimpson]

I think that this shows that there's a certain level of complacency involved in the causes of these accidents - a case of familiarity breeding contempt for the rules of the road, local road conditions and other local road users.

I have to agree with you ronan_d.
The latest fatal accident that occured in our neck of the woods was because someone ran a stop sign. Drink, L-drivers or speed were not a factor.

It seems whenever there is a bad accident its the local people that get the details and the rest of the country is left to assume that speed or drink was the cause. Complacency can be fatal too.

 

[Bamhan]

I think the only way to improve driving practices is to ensure that people are punished for breaking driving laws.
We cannot realy on people to do the right thing and obey the law on the road.
Knowing there is a good chance you will get caught if you speed or drink drive and will be penalised if caught is the only deterrant in my opinion.
When penalty pointd first came in and people believed there was now a good reason to obey the law the incidents of road deaths decreased. It was only when people realiised hey these penatly point things are not as serious as we first thought that people went back to their old ways.

Driver education and policing our roads are th only combination that will work in my opinion.

 

[michaelm]

My understanding is that in France you must complete at least 20 driving lessons and after this you must sit the test. Failure means more lessons and then the test again etc. During this period you are not allowed drive on the roads. Very simple system resulting in no L-drivers on the road causing mayhem...

The above is exactly what should be implemented in Ireland. Also those passing the test should IMHO have to display R-plates and be restricted to 80k/ph and a 1.2L car for one year while they gain road experience. Of course the government won't implement a sensible system because they don't want to upset provisional licence holders and they don't really care about road deaths, they just want to create a perception that they care.

 

[ubiquitous]

I think the only way to improve driving practices is to ensure that people are punished for breaking driving laws.

But nobody causes a road accident on purpose. Everyone knows that road accidents can have horrendous consequences. Even if the State were chopping people's hands off for driving badly, accidents would still happen. Besides most road accidents happen when people are driving within speed limits. It is very easy to kill oneself and others while doing 60 or 70km/hr even in areas where speed limits are (quite correctly) much higher.

When penalty pointd first came in and people believed there was now a good reason to obey the law the incidents of road deaths decreased. It was only when people realiised hey these penatly point things are not as serious as we first thought that people went back to their old ways..

This is the old Gay Byrne/Safety Council/Seamus Brennan/Martin Cullen/RTE spin. I for one don't believe it for a moment and never did. Politicians love to take credit whenever a statistic appears to justify their actions, even when the trend is later shown to be a blip. Two years ago, the crime statistics led Michael McDowell to claim that gangland crime was a thing of the past in this country. The statistics since then show his words to have been an empty boast. Same goes for the effect of penalty points in my opinion.


I have yet to meet anyone who is as flippant or casual about penalty points as you portray. Anyone I know who has penalty points on their licence is very annoyed about it. Particularly so when it is easier to get penalty points on dual carraigeways around Lucan or Donnybrook than it is on the vastly more dangerous N3 between Kells and Dunshaughlin.

 

[Humpback]

Particularly so when it is easier to get penalty points on dual carraigeways around Lucan or Donnybrook than it is on the vastly more dangerous N3 between Kells and Dunshaughlin.

Exactly. When was the last time someone was killed on the stretch of the N11 at Kilmacanogue in Wicklow where the Gardai are religiously out with their speedguns handing out points?

Yet in the last 4 months, having been to Donegal 6 or 7 times, I haven't once seen a speed checkpoint, or even seen Gardai anywhere in the county.