L Platers

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CharlieC

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This has probably been done to death, but it is incredulous that we allow untested people to drive unaccompanied.

In the last two days.
Driving from airport to Swords- dual lane traversing a few roundabouts.
L Plater as I was expecting cut me up. She did the same thing again to others at the next two roundabouts. We all beeped, but I doubt she was even aware of what she had done

This morning L driver stopped at lights. Lights go green and car stalls and rolls back a good few feet and prangs car behind who had been ferociously beeping. I mean did she not hear of a handbrake?
 
Grrr!!

Was behind an L-plater this morning who felt the need to indicate when he was passing (not overtaking) a bus in the bus lane, when following the road i.e. "turning" left where the road veers and there is no other option other than crash yet he felt no need to indicate when he stopped suddenly in the middle of the road and swung a sharp right!! Fortunately, I was a safe distance behind.

The whole thing is a bit of a farce - As someone who recently passed their test, I feel I'm entitled to say this:D
 
I wish there was a gardai who could stop and summons the young female L driver who drives down the bus lane every morning on the Stillorgan dual carriageway near Mount Merrion then at the last minute nips back in to the middle lane at the Radisson Hotel, skipping a hundred or so cars.
 
I agree with the posts above but the one saving grace for these L platers is just that-----They had L plates displayed. I only recently passed my test also and the number of L drivers I know who do not display L plates, do not abide by any of the learner rules ( or other rules such as speed limits ) and have NO intention of applying for their test is really amazing. Further, have never had a driving lesson !

These people are a danger other road users and themselves and Im sure that a number of serious accidents could be PREVENTED at source by an overhaul of the driving test / license issuing system
 
Simple fact -- driving in this country is not monitored.

Don't like to blow the americans trumpets but they stop cars all the time for driving badly, lights not working etc.
When was the last time you saw someone stopped for anything besides speeding(MONEY). If people knew there was a fair chance of being pulled for bad driving skills things would change quickly enough.

Unfortunately -- Monitoring = costs money = wont be done!
 
Here's a story (requires registration) from the indo backing up the claim
that the new penalty point offences for unsafe driving are not being adequately enforced.
 
Can I also ask, have Nissan cornered the market in L drivers? How come four out of five Learner-drivers are driving a Micra?? And holding up everyone else while they learn. Do Micras have built in speed limiters or something?
 
On Monday I saw another L Plater jam on brakes, causing a backlog to buy the Evening herald from a roadside vendor
 
A lot of Fiat cars should not be allowed on the road IMO.
Most of them are like sardine cans with wheels.
Invariably driven by L drivers who are sitting so far forward on their seats and gripping the steering wheel so tightly it is a wonder they have any feeling left in thei bodies when they emerge from said cans.
 
tallpaul said:
Can I also ask, have Nissan cornered the market in L drivers? How come four out of five Learner-drivers are driving a Micra?? And holding up everyone else while they learn. Do Micras have built in speed limiters or something?
Click to expand...

Because they are one litre engines and cheaper to insure?
 
You people complaining about being held up by learner drivers. Were you all born with a full licence? and where do you expect L drivers to learn (in a field ).:D
 
I think the substantive point raised regarding learner drivers who drive unaccompanied and drive without having adequate tuition is a very valid point. I learned to drive later than most of my peers and did not drive unaccompanied. Like most learner drivers I thought I was a "great" driver until I got further tuition (after initial lessons to get me started) and my bad habits and technical errors were highlighted by an experienced instructor. I know of a woman who must be on her third provisional licence, is driving for nearly ten years and her husband is now learning to drive also, all whilst carrying their young family around in the car- the law regarding unaccompanied learner drivers does not work. And Gay Byrne can say what he likes on the radio or TV- without a real deterrent (proper and adequate policing) all the public hand wringing in the world won't change one thing.
 
gramlab said:
Simple fact -- driving in this country is not monitored.

Don't like to blow the americans trumpets but they stop cars all the time for driving badly, lights not working etc.
When was the last time you saw someone stopped for anything besides speeding(MONEY). If people knew there was a fair chance of being pulled for bad driving skills things would change quickly enough.

Unfortunately -- Monitoring = costs money = wont be done!
Click to expand...

Yes, the US certainly do things better than us in these areas. I was over in Phoenix, Arizona for 5 days about 3 years ago. We did a lot of driving but we had numerous encounters with the cops...

1: We didnt fully stop at a stop sign, just almost stopped and then kept going, it was a deserted street but we got pulled over. There was nothing dangerous, it was the fact that we didnt follow the exact law as we should have. I mean no one fully stops at a stop sign in Ireland when they can see that there are no cars comming. Got asked for licence, insurance etc, got a good telling off for 15 mins. Asked the passengers for their passports etc.

2: Driving a little bit fast when an unmarked cop car put on the sirens behind us and we were pulled over. The cop was just driving too, we weren't caught by a speed gun or anything. Got a right grilling for 15 mins, threatened with jail for the night and confiscation of the car, I'll never forget the cop saying to us in his stern accent..."It is a privilege to drive in this country, not a right!". He let us go anyways and warned us that our details were put into the system and if we were pulled over again we would be arrested.

3: Came across many speed checkpoints but luckily not breaking the speed limits.

But the other thing I noticed was peoples driving behaviour was so different. They drove so much slower and with caution, for example they would stop to let people cross the road and give them 10 metres space. Passing out busses than were pulled in to let people off was illegal too.

We have a lot to learn.
 
Swallows said:
You people complaining about being held up by learner drivers. Were you all born with a full licence? and where do you expect L drivers to learn (in a field ).:D
Click to expand...

YES - Good idea they should undergo basic training (CBT) before they are let out on the roads this would also include bikers
 
Swallows said:
You people complaining about being held up by learner drivers. Were you all born with a full licence? and where do you expect L drivers to learn (in a field ).:D
Click to expand...

My understanding is that in France you must complete at least 20 driving lessons and after this you must sit the test. Failure means more lessons and then the test again etc. During this period you are not allowed drive on the roads. Very simple system resulting in no L-drivers on the road causing mayhem...

Of course this process would mean having to radically overhaul the absolutely fantastic system we have here and why would we want to do that...:rolleyes:
 
One argument that I haven't seen mentioned in recent debates about road deaths is the idea about making driving lessons part of the school curriculum. We have to accept that young people are going to drive so why not make sure they are taught properly (to be fair to young people, have you seen the price of driving lessons recently. It is no wonder they have to be taught by family and friends and pick up their bad habbits). I am not saying that this will cure all the problems but at least we will know they have been taught properly. We should at least try it on a trial basis in soemwhere like Donegal where the amount of young people dying is scary. If people decide to speed and drive dangerously after that, as Michael Mc Dowell said, individuals need to accept responsibiity. Never thought I would hear myself agreeing with something that came out of our esteemed Minister Of Justices mouth!

And by the way, people with full licences (myself included) are just as bad as L platers. Some of the driving I see in Dublin frightens me.
 
Not exactly on topic but after all the deaths on the road in the last few days it seems to me that some simplification is required.

As far as I am concerned the three main causes of accidents causing deaths are a combination of speed, drink and inexperience of driving. Both speeding and drink driving can be policed within the existing laws. A huge increase in the policing of these laws will automatically reduce deaths on our roads (recall the early penalty points effect). It has to be worth the states cash (our cash) to increase police numbers in order to effect the number of lives lost on the roads. There was a statisic a couple of years ago about the cost to the state of one death on the road. I don't recall the figure, but it was obvious from the figure that the increased cost of policing would be more than offset by the decrease in the cost of road deaths.

The third area is that of inexperienced drivers on the road. These inexperienced drivers include those fortunate enough to have sat and passed their test. As far as I'm concerned the driving test in this country is a joke. It barely tests a driver. All that is required to pass the test is to sit 5-10 pre-test lessons where you are taught how do drive in order to pass the test. Every movement is so exaggerated, you stretch to look in your rear view mirror etc. You then sit and pass your test. Over a four to six week period you drive like an automaton, and then as soon as you pass your test, because of the fact that the changes to your driving have been so over exaggerated, you revert to "normal" driving.

The whole system should be thrown out and a new system should be put in place. Learner drivers should only be allowed on the roads with qualified registered driving instructors. They should be forced to do a minimum of say 12 lessons, before they are tested (both practically and theoretically) by the state driving testers. The then should be awarded a provisional licence. This should allow them to drive only with a fully licenced driver for a relatively short period of 3-6 months after which they sit their actual driving test (again practical and theoretical). Upon successful passing of this test they should be awarded a probationary full licence. During the next two years, if they avoid any penalty points, they should be awarded a full licence. In the event of getting penalty points the probationary full licence should be taken away, and the driver forced to sit the test again (during the period between losing the licence and sitting the test he/she must be accompanied by a fully licenced driver). Upon passing the test, the driver is then awarded the probationary full licence for a further two years. If no penalty points are accrued during this period, then a full licence should be awarded.

All fully licenced drivers should be forced to take a driving test every five to ten years.

This system is based upon the premise that (state employed) driving testers are able to handle the increased number of tests required.

This is just an outline, but a major overhaul of the testing/learning is required.

Past30
 
Swallows said:
You people complaining about being held up by learner drivers. Were you all born with a full licence? and where do you expect L drivers to learn (in a field ).:D
Click to expand...

Actually yes I did. And I didn't dare go out onto the road until i could drive and when i could manage the car and manouvre around bales of hay i ventured out on the road with L plates but i don't think i was endangering others.

The problem is that L drivers are so incapable of driving initially that they endanger others.
This thing of going for lessons and on the first lesson being brought out onto the road is the most rediculous thing i've come across.

More Gardai, more gardai, more gardai. Get them out on the roads
 
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