"Kilkenny Trust" that makes your mortgage "disappear "!

I don't think that Mr Justice Brian of the Family McGovern will be too impressed.

Looks like he will be introducing them to Edward of the family Whelan.
 
Just came across this summary from Justice John D Rooke in a 185 page judgement on the issues, courtesy of Wikipedia

The bluntly idiotic substance of Mr. Mead’s argument explains the unnecessarily complicated manner in which it was presented. OPCA(Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments ) arguments are never sold to their customers as simple ideas, but instead are byzantine schemes which more closely resemble the plot of a dark fantasy novel than anything else. Latin maxims and powerful sounding language are often used. Documents are often ornamented with many strange marking and seals. Litigants engage in peculiar, ritual‑like in court conduct. All these features appear necessary for gurus to market OPCA schemes to their often desperate, ill‑informed, mentally disturbed, or legally abusive customers. This is crucial to understand the non-substance of any OPCA concept or strategy. The story and process of a OPCA scheme is not intended to impress or convince the Courts, but rather to impress the guru’s customer.[9] [emphasis in original]
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An interesting thread and it is unfortunate that these people are seen somehow as the champions of the people against the system. While there appears to be no legal basis for these asset transfers, they can to some extent be regarded as harmless diversions, or even an attempt to assist people avoid the baliffs for a short period. Unfortunately, I have heard of some people who have handed over substantial unencumbered assets to these trusts and also paying the Trust rent rather than paying the money to reduce the Bank debt. This is obviously a serious situation for these unfortunate people as it will compound their financial problems. They may not all be set up to scam people but this is the perception and the eventual outcome for most of their members is likely to be problematic as they are entering a process where they have no Legal protection.
 
The individuals involved in this trust have generally been seen as 'well-meaning' but misguided and naive. Mr Justice Rooke dealt with that issue in the judgment referred to by Brendan:

'' In his poem Inferno at Cantos 26-30, Dante placed the “evil counsellors” ‑ those who used their position to advise others to engage in fraud, and “the falsifiers” ‑ alchemists, counterfeiters, perjurers, and imposters, into the inner canyons of the eighth circle of hell. As sinners, the evil counsellors and falsifiers were matched by those who induce religious schisms, and surpassed only in fault by oath‑breakers.
Persons who purposefully promote and teach proven ineffective techniques that purport to defeat valid state and court authority, and circumvent social obligations, appear to fall into those two categories. That they do so, and for profit at the expense of naive and vulnerable customers, is worse.

William S. Burroughs in Naked Lunch (New York: Grove Press, 1962, p. 11) wrote: “Hustlers of the world, there is one Mark you cannot beat: The Mark Inside.” I believe that is true for you. At some basic level, you understand that you are selling lies, or at the very most generous, wildly dubious concepts.

It does not matter whether you frame your ‘business’ as a joke, religion, for educational purposes only, or as not being legal advice; your ‘business’ harms your naive or malicious customers, their families, and the innocent persons whom your customers abuse as they attempt to exercise what you have told them are their rights.''
 
Hoagy said:
The individuals involved in this trust have generally been seen as 'well-meaning' but misguided and naive.
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Hi Hoagy

Who has seen them as well-meaning?

They are trying to help people escape their lawfully incurred mortgages, at the expense of society generally.
They used a mob to forcefully take back a farm which had been repossessed by order of the court.
They are charging €250 a pop and may be putting other unencumbered assets into this trust.

I see nothing "well-meaning" about this.

Brendan
 
Jim Stafford said:
After being asked by a number of clients about the Charles Allen Trust, I met with representatives of the Trust in late July.

I believe that the representatives are well meaning (in respect of borrowers!), and wish to help vulnerable people. transfers etc. (Some transfers would trigger substantial VAT liabilities on behalf of the borrower.)

Jim Stafford
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In this thread, for one.
 
RainyDay said:
Maybe it's just Jim and Hoagy that see owners of stud farms as 'vulnerable'.
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Ah now, you are forgetting that Charlie also sees them as vulnerable.

Seriously though, being asset rich is no guarantee of invulnerability.
 
This just gets madder.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/trust-tells-receivers-to-vacate-debtors-properties-244642.html

A quasi-spiritual trust has moved to assert control over a lucrative portfolio of properties signed into its care, by telling receivers and auctioneers to vacate the lands or face hundreds of millions of euro in claims.

The move has come as a High Court bench warrant was issued against the organiser of the Rodolphus Allen Trust, which says it has accepted €2bn worth of assets from up to 2,000 struggling debtors.
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I'd like to be there to see how Judge Peter Kelly would deal with this (presuming it ends up in the Commercial Court at some point).
 
An arrest warrant has been issued for Charles Allen.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-of-man-behind-2bn-assets-trust-29617039.html

AODHAN O'FAOLAIN AND RAY MANAGH – 28 SEPTEMBER 2013

A BENCH warrant has been issued for the arrest of a man who along with a number of others is alleged to have trespassed on and illegally occupied a stud farm.

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Mr Justice Sean Ryan yesterday ruled that Charles Allen should be arrested and brought before the High Court.

He must answer claims that he is in contempt of court orders in respect of 120 acres of land at Kennycourt Stud, Naas, Co Kildare.

Landscape gardener Mr Allen is a leading figure behind the Rodolphus Allen Family Private Trust, a group set up with the aim of putting assets beyond the reach of banks seeking repossession.

The trust claims to have €2bn worth of property, including homes, farms and businesses. People who sign up to the trust lease the property back from it for a nominal sum, thereby giving them the use of the asset.

However, legal experts have warned that the trust is unlikely to succeeded in preventing repossessions.

In proceedings brought by joint receivers appointed over Kennycourt Stud in 2011, it is claimed that Mr Allen, along with stud-farm owner Eugene McDermott and anti-eviction activist Ben Gilroy, have breached orders not to trespass or interfere with the receivership.

Receivers Mark Reynolds and Glenn Crann claim that all three are involved with "a mob" who last month forced the receivers' agents off the stud farm.

The receivers were kept off the property, which they want to sell, until Wednesday of this week when they retook possession.

Two weeks ago, the High Court ordered that Mr Gilroy and Mr McDermott be arrested and brought before the bench to answer their alleged contempt. Those warrants have yet to be executed.

A similar application in respect of Mr Allen was adjourned to yesterday's sitting of the court to allow the receivers' lawyers to serve him with legal papers about the case.

Last Monday, Mr Allen was personally served with all the relevant legal documentation at a Co Wexford hotel, the court heard.

Barrister for the receivers, Michael Howard, said the action arose after a mob of more than 100 people led by Mr Allen and Mr Gilroy took possession of the stud farm on August 31.

Mr Allen, he said, was photographed cutting locks placed by the receivers' security staff on gates at the stud farm.

FABRICATION

Counsel said Mr Allen stated that the farm was now the property of the Rodolphus Allen Family Private Trust. He told the court the trust was a "legal fabrication" that granted signatories a 999-year lease over the same properties.

Mr Gilroy, of Navan, Co Meath, a candidate in last March's Meath East by-election; Mr Allen, with addresses at Thomastown and Inistioge, Co Kilkenny; and Mr McDermott, of Kennycourt Stud, have not attended court since the action was initiated by the receivers.

Mr Justice Ryan said there was no question in his mind that Mr Allen had been served with the relevant legal documentation.

He said he was also satisfied that Mr Allen was aware proceedings had been brought against him by the receivers.

The judge ordered that Mr Allen be arrested and brought before the court to answer the claim that he has breached court orders.

Irish Independent
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Bronte;
Seems crazy surely , seems like nonsense to me.
BUT In the Threads I pick up that these (freemen) are acting in good faith.Normally good-faith people have a point.

Let us see what High Court says.
Methinks there will be a twist yet. I see Supreme Court and Constitutional Chllenges here.
 
Gerry Canning said:
BUT In the Threads I pick up that these (freemen) are acting in good faith.Normally good-faith people have a point.

.
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I don't know about this, that freeman are acting in good faith.

In any case good faith people can make a right mess of things, by offering people false hope, by confusing them, by being deceitful, by catering to the desparation of those in trouble.

Allan is making a lot of money from the 'trust' if his 'figures' on the number who have subscribed can be believed. Is Gilroy the one who was renting his apartment and pocketing the rent while paying the bank zero, or have I got the wrong man? Who is McDermot?
 
Bronte said:
I don't know about this, that freeman are acting in good faith.

In any case good faith people can make a right mess of things, by offering people false hope, by confusing them, by being deceitful, by catering to the desparation of those in trouble.

Allan is making a lot of money from the 'trust' if his 'figures' on the number who have subscribed can be believed. Is Gilroy the one who was renting his apartment and pocketing the rent while paying the bank zero, or have I got the wrong man? Who is McDermot?
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The lad pocketing the rent and using rent-a-mob to stop the repossession was Eugene Dooley
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1016/341938-arrest-eviction-dundalk/

McDermott is the stud farm owner (ordinary people of Ireland!) who used rent a mob recently also
http://www.thejournal.ie/kennycourt-stud-farm-1063806-Sep2013/

Gilroy is the fella who has copyrighted his name (€50k every time you use it!) who ran in the Meath East by-election earlier this year and has'nt paid his mortgage in over 2 years so his accommodation is currently paid for by the Irish taxpayer
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/b...tgages-nears-an-end.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
 
Delboy said:
The lad pocketing the rent and using rent-a-mob to stop the repossession was Eugene Dooley
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Thanks Delboy for that, I cannot keep up with everybody. We should have a key post on who is who for this. I'd add Jerry Beades, the guy who stopped an auction, is an ex FF er, and ex property developer.
 
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