kids kicking football outside gate.

[Teapot]

It could be that parents are not always available to take children to a park also it is very unsafe to let them go there alone. Therefore, the children are probably kicking a ball around near to their homes where an eye can keep on them. As for cars getting scratched this is unfortunate but is there evidence that the same children that are playing ball near the cars are doing it.

I would rather have my children playing ball outside my gate instead of them to be somewhere that I cannot keep an eye on them. It is a shame that there is zero tolerance with young people for just having an innocent game of ball outside their homes. It make me wonder about the people that complaining where did their children play, or are allowed to go to the park on their own.

 

[z103]

I would rather have my children playing ball outside my gate instead of them to be somewhere that I cannot keep an eye on them.

Unless you are constantly watching your children, I don't think you are really keeping an eye on them. Nonces will show up where kids are to be found.

 

[SarahMc]

Where was that suggestion made?

Here

If you've made a decision to have kids - let them play in your garden and don't have them being a nuisance to other people who haven't had your kids!!!!

You're encouraging children to play on the street? FFS.

Yes, and never once in wide ranging consultation with resident's associations, community groups etc. did anyone express concern or negativity. In fact the most helpful both in terms of contributions and encouragement were active retirement groups and older people.

Maybe because they played outside as children and brought their own children up to play outside/ are less likely to have cars / not be stressed from working all day / have a greater sense of community.

And folks, if you are worried about children playing ball outside your house, wait 'til parkour hits your estate, you'll be buying balls in bulk and foisting them upon your neighbours children!

 

[z103]

I find it most disheartening that there are people who do not see a problem with allowing their children to cause such anguish to others. People that allow and indeed encourage children to commit illegal, anti-social acts. Selfishly impinging on other people's lives.

Other people certainly are hell, and I'm so glad that that episode in my life is behind me.

Well there's nothing really more I can add to this discussion.

 

[aircobra19]

I am involved in a project which sought to preserve and encourage traditional street games for children and young people. There are huge advantages for children both physically and socially....

If they avoid the cars and survive.

 

[Marie]

Well this has been enlightening as to where today's 'children's' destructiveness, arrogance, contempt of anything outside their own narcissistic desires and sheer stupidity come from!

Yesterday evening when the lads got out on the street with their ball I decided that this time, instead of moving my car to a safer place - which on Saturday evening in the town centre might be a couple of miles! - I would take the advice given on this forum. I brought out my chair, my newspaper and my mobile. They entertained themselves with loud 'music' from their mobiles and thump! thump! thump! went the ball against the wall about two or three feet in front of my parked vehicle. The ball repeatedly hit the car - the front windscreen, the bonnet, the right-hand mirror. I caught it all on my mobile.

After a time the ring-leader appeared to find his abusive running commentary on myself, and his attacks on my vehicle, insufficient and began to kick the ball hard and repeatedly straight into the face of a mate who was not kicking ball but was eating take-away fish-and-chips leaning against my wall.

Anyone who thinks it is OK for kids to live and eat and 'relate' (!?) in the streets of today's cities and towns are naive in the extreme. Children - particularly pre-pubescent boys - need support, guidance and boundaries and structure for their energy. Those who abrogate responsibility saddle the rest of the community (including those of us whose property or person comes in the way of these unfortunate ferral children) with the consequences of that neglect.

 

[Marie]

I agree fully with SarahMc. Most of us very hard in order to buy our homes and have our fancy 07 cars, or whatever, but it is very disheartening to read that so many 'not-in-my-back-yard' people basically begrudge children from kicking a ball outside their gates. This country will probably be beset by an obesity epidemic in years to come, much of which is related to the lack of outdoor pursuits for children.

I would have thought that most people understand that the kids kicking ball on the street (which is almost always in an estate by the way, and not on a major road) are typically well-adjusted individuals who will grow up reasonably fit and healthy and will buy homes and cars of their own which might occasionally get hit by a stray ball. Big deal !!!!

I'm sure most of the posters who oppose street football were dancing in the streets during Italia '90 and USA '94, so the fact that they have such a problem with spontaneous games of ball is rather hypocritical. Kids don't always have a suitable green space nearby, and many such spaces (where they do exist) are fairly forbidding in winter, being typically soaked wet/overgrown/badly lit.

So lay off on the kids. Most of them are probably decent young people who, although they occasionally hit OUR cars, or OUR windows, are just growing up and do not - in general - mean any real harm ...

That beautifully captures the adult apathy that is creating a lost generation. Vote-carrying, tax-paying adults accept lack of proper amenity for their childrens' safety and development in the form of absence of sports- and leisure-centres, parks and recreation-grounds and settle instead for the kids tormenting the local populace to the point of anguish and/or moving home. There's a model to give a child on how to engage with their world!

Incidentally the situation in question is not an estate (where incidentally I consider it is equally unacceptable!) This ball-playing takes place in a street in the middle of a large town, on a busy one-way system at the top of the 45degree hill with a SHARP LEFT BEND where drivers have to break, swerve and slow suddenly as they come suddenly upon these young footballers, putting them and their passengers and passing pedestrians at risk.

 

[aircobra19]

I agree fully with SarahMc. Most of us very hard in order to buy our homes and have our fancy 07 cars, or whatever, but it is very disheartening to read that so many 'not-in-my-back-yard' people basically begrudge children from kicking a ball outside their gates. This country will probably be beset by an obesity epidemic in years to come, much of which is related to the lack of outdoor pursuits for children.

I would have thought that most people understand that the kids kicking ball on the street (which is almost always in an estate by the way, and not on a major road) are typically well-adjusted individuals who will grow up reasonably fit and healthy and will buy homes and cars of their own which might occasionally get hit by a stray ball. Big deal !!!!

I'm sure most of the posters who oppose street football were dancing in the streets during Italia '90 and USA '94, so the fact that they have such a problem with spontaneous games of ball is rather hypocritical. Kids don't always have a suitable green space nearby, and many such spaces (where they do exist) are fairly forbidding in winter, being typically soaked wet/overgrown/badly lit.

So lay off on the kids. Most of them are probably decent young people who, although they occasionally hit OUR cars, or OUR windows, are just growing up and do not - in general - mean any real harm ...

Your making light of a problem that nothing to do with money, or childrens health. Its about respecting other people and not making their life a misery. Letting your kids torment your neighbours because you are too lazy to make an effort yourself is the cause of the problem.

 

[Teapot]

Why not have a word with your community police and let them know what is going on also tell them the time that the ball playing is taking place as well are reporting the damage that the ball is doing to your car. All the police have to do is make an appearance and have a word with them. The police will also caution about damage to cars and if they are responsible for it their parents will have to pay for the repairs.



Teapot

 

[Gordanus]

Nonces will show up where kids are to be found.

I presume by nonce you mean paedophile? this seems outright paranoia. Only where there is no parental supervision; where a 5 yr old is left in charge of a 2 yr old. At least in estates, parents are around - looking out windows occasionally, walking around etc. Where there are tower blocks, blocks of flats etc, it's much harder for parents to supervise at a distance in the same way.

 

[aircobra19]

Why not have a word with your community police and let them know what is going on also tell them the time that the ball playing is taking place as well are reporting the damage that the ball is doing to your car. All the police have to do is make an appearance and have a word with them. The police will also caution about damage to cars and if they are responsible for it their parents will have to pay for the repairs.

Teapot

That wasn't our experience of the community police.

 

[musicfan]

Have read through the last few posts in this thread and am shaking my head in amazement!!

To suggest that people who don't want kids damaging their property with footballs are responsible for the childrens obesity problem in ireland is ludicrous!!!

Its a lazy parent that will allow their kids to play football and damage people property........ Why not take the time to provide them with proper exercise or least ensure they are playing football where there is room and not damaging peoples' houses and cars etc etc.

I'm not going to let my car and house be ruined by selfish kids / parents just so they won't get fat - thats not my problem but my house and car is!!!

I have no problem with kids playing football or hopscoth etc in COMMUNAL areas in the estate - that what the green areas are for!! But I don't consider the end wall of my house and my car to be communal areas. In my area, this is where the kids are playing - not on the green COMMUNAL areas!!!!

Also, if there are no suitable areas for the kids to play in your estate - why did you move there in the first place - did it not occur to you to have a look to see if there was somewhere safe and suitable for your kids to play. Just because there is no 'suitable' playing areas for your kids doesn't mean you can use my wall and car to play football against...........

 

[Marathon Man]

Grow some pyracantha near the gate. It may take some time to grow but will be well worth it. The thorns/spikes will puncture the ball and they are quite painful when they pierce the skin (when retrieving the ball).

I have several along my back wall and they have stopped people coming over from the roadway behind. It will be 18 months/2 years before they become relatively strong but they may do the trick anyway in the meantime.

 

[zag]

For *generations* children have been playing in the streets of *every* town and city across pretty much all of Europe, and most of the entire planet. This is of course when they were not down the mine, in the fields or in the factory. They have also been playing in communal land, parks, waste land, etc . . .

For all this time they have also (at least some of the time) been breaking windows, damaging trees and annoying neighbours. This is not new.

What is new is that in some/many cases when this damage is caused there is no means to resolution or remediation. The 'grown up' no longer appears as a figure of authority, the police have no time for this, the parents don't accept responsibility.

This to me is the key difference - years ago, many parents sense of community and of right was sufficient to ensure that when they were aware of a nuisance caused by their children they would see to it that their children stopped. Nowadays, it seems that many parents (yes, I am a parent) see attempts to give out to their children as an affront, a challenge, an insult to them and to their family.

Of course, my rose tinted glasses aren't perfect and i realise that through the generations there were kids who were never controlled, parents who didn't care, neighbours who were annoyed and 'tortured' for years but I believe this was the exception rather than the rule.

On a positive note - my father came home from holidays a few years ago to find a foot shaped dent in the roof of his car. He was not impressed, but none the less he recognised that this did not affect the ability of his car to be driven or of the roof to keep the rain off. A few days after he came back, a sheepish looking teenager presented at the front door with a parent in tow. The teenager apologised, explained he had run over the top of the car as a dare and offered to pay for the damage to be fixed. The 'brand' garage wanted to charge something like €900 to do a bit of panel beating (can we say 'Celtic Tiger' ?), but my dad just whacked it back into shape himself. Kid learned a lesson in the practical cost (or at least the potential cost in this case), and the social cost of doing something like that and causing damage in the process. And how idd all this come about ? Because the parent in this case took the time and effort to recognise that the behaviour was not acceptable and correcitve action was taken.

This however, is different than the situation as described by the original poster and some recent ones where children have been advised that they are causing damage and nuisance and still persist with their behaviour. I don't envy people in this situation.

z

 

[zag]

I agree with Marathon Man - grow something very spiky along the boundary. I don't know what we have in the back garden but it may well be pyracantha as described above - we have lost countless of our own footballs to its spikes. They go through every sort of ball that hits it.

z

 

[musicfan]

Next time the ball lands in your driveway, just take the damm ball away from them. Problem solved!

Been there done that - 5 mins later they have another ball. The loss of one football (or two or three.....) isn't enough to stop these 'darling' little monsters..............

 

[TDON]

If theses kids are hanging around your house, even if it is ridiculous that they would be playing on a road and all they are doing is playing hopscotch, hide & seek, comparing teachers & homework, gossping etc, how can anyone say that "people on my side of this argument" would find that offensive.

That is not what's been talked about here. It's about kids causing damage to property, that hasn't cost them or their parents a cent and making other peoples life hell. These callous individuals are the ones causing the problem here as they have actually instigated the attack in the first place. Then they take no responsibilty for it, but why would they, when that's they way they've been brought up. The children see their parents being rude, arrogant & unsympathetic to their neighbours plight and are therefore learning by what they see.

I have actually seen a 4 year old out on the road on her own, at 9.30 p.m. stick up the middle finger on each hand, turn and stick out her bum and go "pooooo", all the time her mother was indoors getting sozzled. The only thing I can say to myself is "they will reap what they sow"

 

[musicfan]

The world doesn't revolve around your property or your personal concerns.

I'm not asking for the world to revolve around my property!! However, my property is my concern as I work hard to pay for it.

All I ask is that other parents take responsibilty for their kids and ensure that my property is not damaged by their kids. If other people are damaging my property then it is my concern - it should also be the concern of parents who are allowing their kids to cause this damage.

Are you suggesting that I ignore damage to my property just so kids can play football??? If I go out tonight to cause damage to the property belonging to the parents of these kids then I will be held responsible and must face the consequences. Kids (and if they are too young) and their parents must be held responsible for their actions and the damage and distress that they are causing to other people and their property.

 

[Marie]

For *generations* children have been playing in the streets of *every* town and city across pretty much all of Europe, and most of the entire planet. This is of course when they were not down the mine, in the fields or in the factory. They have also been playing in communal land, parks, waste land, etc . . .

For all this time they have also (at least some of the time) been breaking windows, damaging trees and annoying neighbours. This is not new.

What is new is that in some/many cases when this damage is caused there is no means to resolution or remediation. The 'grown up' no longer appears as a figure of authority, the police have no time for this, the parents don't accept responsibility.

This to me is the key difference - years ago, many parents sense of community and of right was sufficient to ensure that when they were aware of a nuisance caused by their children they would see to it that their children stopped. Nowadays, it seems that many parents (yes, I am a parent) see attempts to give out to their children as an affront, a challenge, an insult to them and to their family.

Of course, my rose tinted glasses aren't perfect and i realise that through the generations there were kids who were never controlled, parents who didn't care, neighbours who were annoyed and 'tortured' for years but I believe this was the exception rather than the rule.

On a positive note - my father came home from holidays a few years ago to find a foot shaped dent in the roof of his car. He was not impressed, but none the less he recognised that this did not affect the ability of his car to be driven or of the roof to keep the rain off. A few days after he came back, a sheepish looking teenager presented at the front door with a parent in tow. The teenager apologised, explained he had run over the top of the car as a dare and offered to pay for the damage to be fixed. The 'brand' garage wanted to charge something like €900 to do a bit of panel beating (can we say 'Celtic Tiger' ?), but my dad just whacked it back into shape himself. Kid learned a lesson in the practical cost (or at least the potential cost in this case), and the social cost of doing something like that and causing damage in the process. And how idd all this come about ? Because the parent in this case took the time and effort to recognise that the behaviour was not acceptable and correcitve action was taken.

This however, is different than the situation as described by the original poster and some recent ones where children have been advised that they are causing damage and nuisance and still persist with their behaviour. I don't envy people in this situation.

z

Zag has put the point very well. Kids have always played on the streets and got into trouble from time to time. I grew up in Ballyfermot when it was "Bally-far-out", a satellite mega-estate at the time where there were no civic amenities. The new Leisure Centre has just arrived - 50 years after the people.......but 'sin e sceal eile'! Our exploits were legion and we were often in trouble. That's how we learned and changed. Any annoyance we created for neighbours was never intentional and never (in my own case anyway!) motivated by spite.

Kids still play 'in the streets' but apart from that everything else has changed Shared public areas are not cared for or valued, are regarded as someone else's responsibility; adults (including police and teachers) are not respected by many children who simply don't accept authority. Parents (even sensible thoughtful ones!)are between a rock and a hard place because the surrounding culture is one of instant gratification, irresponsibility and selfishness. Police and other authorities can do little about childrens' behaviour because of their status as minors they are exempt from the laws of the land as these apply to adults. However as a number of posters have already observed, children today are far, far more sophisticated than formerly. They (naturally!) exploit this immunity. Bad behaviour by young people in the public space is also - as has been pointed out - now more prevalent and their responses to being challenged more deadly - see recent headlines.

This, together with parents whose idea of child-rearing stops at buying their children the latest 'must-have' as soon as it appears - from football strips to high tech - makes for bored restless confused young people who have no experience of dialogue and no conception of others or of difference. They are shocked and angry and react with hostility and destructiveness when anything is expected of them because that has not been a factor in their socialisation.

This is not OK. In my professional experience narcissistic minors become dangerous teenagers and dysfunctional destructive adults. The journey, as they say, starts with the first step and youngsters who cause distress to their neighbours are well on their way along that highway. To suggest we all just sit back and let them practice on our persons and property for a future of antisocial greed is not responsible but unless the entire community puts reasonable standards of behaviour in place, and enforces them, individuals who try to stand against it alone are ****ing into the wind.

 

[Marie]

Next time the ball lands in your driveway, just take the damm ball away from them. Problem solved!

Part of the problem - and something I think needs to be reviewed - is that children are not subject to the rigours of law in the same way as adults. These children kicking ball in the street are minors and not liable for damage they cause and the process of transferring liability to parents in the legal system is patchy. However as an adult I am liable for anything I do to them or their property. There are strict limits limiting what adults can do vis-a-vis children in public places - whatever they are doing to our property or cars - and still be within the law. This is the anomoly and the problem.