Key Post: Insulation

Hi,

I know several people who have had new houses built and their builders have refused to fit insulation between the ground and first floors, mine included. Does anyone know why this is the case? Has anyone been able to get it done and if so with what results for noise and heat insulation?
 
Insulation between ground floor and first floor

Sorry geegee,I didn't see your post earlier,thanks suellen for bringing it up again.
The reason why builders safe on insulation is money,nothing else.Any insulation between floors has a sound breaking effect.The heavier the material the better it's soundproofing quality .But putting in a heavy material between the beams means also increasing the weight and that demands a different static calculation-stronger beams for example,different method of holding the beams in place. For temperature insulation it is of course better to have a rooms sealing insulated.In multi story houses it is actually a legally binding rule to insulate between floors.A certain soundproofing has to be met as well as a certain temperature insulation.In the single family home the occupiers argue with each other about the noise("Son,turn that music down!..."),but in an apartment block they would want their money back from the seller....
 
Re: >>Insulation

Wow, Heinblod, what an amazing amount of advice contained there. I'll have to print it out and read it slowly to get it's full value!

A quick question (also to paddyirishman) how do you close a fireplace safely? Is it just a matter of putting a piece of wood over the fireplace to block it off? or is there any risk of problems starting off in the chimney?

What about the fire damper? What is it? Where do you get it? How is it installed and how much do they cost generally?

:confused:
 
Re: >>Insulation

I fitted a two-inch thick piece of rigid polystyrene up into the chimney, with a 2-inch diameter hole cut in the centre of it to prevent condensation building up in the chimney flue and leading to damp problems.

Has cut down significantly on the chill in the room.

Make sure you leave a hole in whatever you use to block up the chimney - blocking it completely is a bad idea from a damp, as well as a ventilation, point of view. Oh, and remember to remove it if you want to light a fire some time!
 
Re: >>Insulation

A simple, straightforward and cheap method is to use a piece of corrugated cardboard (for example from a apple or banana box) and fix it to the outside of the open fire with some brown cheap packaging sticky tape. That would stop the drought and the ash and dust falling into the room. It would last for a season , rain and snow coming down the chimney will deterioate it and then it needs replacement. If you need the fire place no more because of central heating then consider to close the chimney at the top for good, or even demolish the entire structure to gain more space and a smaller heating bill and a cleaner house.
 
We're currently building a new house and have started to insulate the cavity walls with kingspan. We are also considering putting insulated plasterboard on the inside of the external walls but are not sure if this is necessary. Basically, we've been told by a friend that we should do one or the other but not both.. Any advice appreciated!
 
You should ask Kingspan to do an interstitial condensation risk analysis based on your proposed construction detail. They will be able to tell you what kind of u-value such a detail could achieve and with this information you can decide whether the drylining is worth it.
 
Re: Insulation - fireplace

Hi, regarding fireplaces and the use of a damper... is this the best solution for new house builds? Is the damper installed late in the build whenever the fireplace is being installed?

I'm not too bothered about an open fire but would like to have the option I suppose. Or would you recommend no chimney whatsoever if I'm happy enough with the central heating system (no open fire ever!). Thanks.
 
Re: Insulation

Hi Declan !
As “O”and “Ajapale” said already the cheapest way, meaning the method with the fastest payback time, is to insulate and draft-proof the building. If the window frames are in good technical condition i.e not rotten than replace the broken panes with the best double glazing that you can find. Usually it is the metallcoated glass trading under the brand name VISTATHERME but there might be other manufacturers as well. When you have found a manufacturer ask him to fill these double panes with noble gas, usually ARGON. It costs a little extra but it is worth it (pay back might take an extra 3-5 years). Once you are at the windows check with your supplier if it is worth exchanging the draft proofing strips. The hollow ones are certainly better than the folded-strip ones, the same as on the door of your fridge. I assume you have timber windows since you spoke about damaged ones. Exchanging the strips on them is really a DIY job, pull out the old ones and push back the new ones.
The trouble with timber windows is that they naturally warp a bit with changing moisture content, so don't set the new panes flush with the frames,give them a little leeway that you can fill with clear silicone (the stuff for outside - weather resistant) before you put in the pane whilst the the silicone is still soft .
Check with your supplier if it is worth doing the other windows as well , at least the ones in the rooms that are usually heated and/or are at the coldest part of the house , usually the north side.
Now to the cavity walls : It's worth filling them , but usually that is already done. Now there are houses with cavity walls that are not filled, in this case the blow-in method is advisable. For material choice go for
expanded foam since there are some troublesome materials like cellulose or glass fibre that could suck up the moisture like candlewicks, become heavy and sack. Wet or sacked-they won't insulate any more. So which foam material ? The choice is between expanded polystyrene (loose beads) or, as you mentioned, polyurethane foam. Beads have the advantage that they are cheaper and recyclable. In case you want to break out parts of the wall - for the extension or whatsoever - you drill in a hole and vacuum the wall empty, the material can be reused .
The polyurethane foam is more expensive and less environmentally friendly due to its content of ozone damaging gas. The manufacturers have worked on the problem, nevertheless it still needs the expanding gas which is a climate killer, less than its predecessors but still. But it has also advantages. The insulation is a bit better ( U-value or k-value ). For exact numbers check the manufacturers homepage ( AEROBOARD versus KINGSPAN ) . In practical terms the difference between them two is to little to bother about , unless you have to follow the building regulations and the space for the insulation material is at the limit .
However, Mr. Byrne , our competition commissioner of the EU , was a couple of month ago investigating price fixing accusations against British and Irish manufacturers of expanded polystyrene. I lost track of what is going on and the outcome of it thanks to the quality of our mass media. The accusations were that the industry is overcharging the consumers ( compared to continental Europe ) by 30% .
To insulate the house from the inside is the last and worst method. As paddyirishman said you loose all the benefit of the heat storing capacity of a solid wall incl. the benefit to regulate the moisture content of the air , I call it a dead insulation. In a funny way : You could either eat the jumper or wrap it around you. However , in some cases (no access to the outside, no building permission , listed building) it might be the only way to save some energy . But be carefull with that, it is difficult - expensive - to get a proper job done this way , thermal bridges at corners,floors,ceilings are difficult to avoid. Thermal bridges will cause condensation and mould - sick building syndrom it is called , check the GOOGLE for it .
And , as ajapale said “hienbloed” is stressing it again and again: close the holes in the walls . No open fires !
Where there is a draft - upwards the chimney - the air that goes out will be replaced by fresh , cold air that has to penetrate the building. At the point where it comes in (the gaps) it will cool down the surface . A cold surface causes moisture to condense - mould.
Besides it's unsightly look it can damage your health and also the house structure itself. And you heat a lot of air that goes up the chimney. If you put in a new boiler anyhow than go for the so called “Condensing Boiler”!
These are enclosed boilers that take the air for combusting from the outside and release the fumes to outside .That means that they dont warm up air just to blow it out the chimney . Manufacturers home pages are to be found at sedbuk.com/ .I searched a while for mine but it was worth it, a Vokera HYDRA that gives instantenius hot water and heats the house as well . There are others , but it was the cheapest , €1400 plus VAT from Cork HEATMERCHANTS. A condensing boiler does away with the chimney, the hot press , the draft and the boiler room . It pays for itself before you even started it . And they have an efficiency of 90% or even more.
Closing the holes is THE most important thing in insulating. Imagine that you rip out all the sealant strips of your doors and windows. The total gap would be smaller than the opening of your fireplace. So not to close the fireplace is the most stupid thing (energy saving wise). And when you are short of money or you haven't got the time: put a piece of corrugated card board against it , seal it with a bit of masking tape and you feel immediately the difference . Try it . You still can go back. The draft is usually so strong that the card board will stand on its own, sucked to the opening.

Check also w.irish-energy.ie
Now, Declan , if you find any suplier of triple glazing let us know , there is a market here .


Heinbloed,

This is an excellent summary. Given though that its a couple of years old, would you change any of recommendations? If you were building a house now, how would insulate walls, floors, attic using what's available today?
 
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