Key Post: Building a House

re

Bud,

600 euro for what exactly?

On the subject of building, anyone used scandinavian homes in Galway? If yes, how much (approx) per sq ft for the finished house?

Reading back over this post bought a tear to my eye - less than two years ago you could buy a 4 bed semi-d in Galway for 140,000 punts/177,000 euro...you'd be lucky to get a three bed semi for 250,000 euro today...sob :(

And you'd have to put up with the stupid 'box room' which they seem to shove into all houses these days.....box room? Dog box more like it....!!!
 
building a house

you better get your skates on and lodge a planning permission as the new development plan for galway is being passed soon which will make it much harder for you to receive planning for a one off house.
with regards to direct labour, if you are borrowing from the bank, they will require a builders name so they can issue money at differnt stages of construction, also bear in mind you will have to probably supply scaffolding, pay for removal of rubble/waste etc. and be constantly on site to ensure thay are doing a decent job and do alot of running around to get the materials.Also most builders get a discount from builders providers which you won't be entitled to
 
Bank will want builders name

I am about to start a direct labour project. I have already arranged the morgtage. I have been told by my bank that I can draw the money in any fashion I want in order to pay for materials and labour as the job progresses in the direct labour way.
I cant understand how a bank can advance money for a direct labour build and then demand a builders name. Direct labour projects simply do not work like that.

Ta ochras mor orm anois.
 
self build

i want to build a house in the dublin area i have a builder who would build it for 95 euros a sq foot do you think i could build it for cheaper if i got the tradesmen in my self i am a plasterer and would the plasterering my self if any one has any hints for me pleas get in touch @ celticplasterers@eircom.net thanks peter gourlay
 
Direct labour savings

Hi Celticplasterers,
think of it this way, if you agree a price of €95psqft with your builder, and he looks after everything eg. phoning guys and arranging for them to do work, phoning suppliers and ordering stuff, spending some of his time supervising/checking up on them, do you think he does all that for free? Too right he doesn't, and why should he, so you safe the value of that straight away by going direct labour.
The flip side of this though is that you may not get the same prices for everything (from labour to materials) as he does. And he is probably better at estimating the price of everything than you are, so for you to do an accurate comparison is difficult.
Having said all that, the general accepted wisdom is that direct labour is usually cheaper. Good Luck whatever you do.
 
Self Build - Builder details

Do you have the details of the builder that will build it for 95 euros a sq foot?
 
..

Anyone any idea of what the going rate (i.e Euros per sq. ft) is for building an extension in Dublin?

Thanks

B
 
Re: >>Building a House (Key post)

See [broken link removed] for [broken link removed] and a pile of other articles on building your own home.
 
building a house

Rainyday - could you please fix the link above - I cannot find the articles you mention

I am also embarking on a self-build and have been told that I must take out liability insurance? Can anyone give me advice on the whols self insurance issue when building your own home

Thankyou
 
Link still not working & Self Build Insurance

To Rainyday: Link still does not seem to work

To Cathal: There is an interesting post which I've been contributing to, its probably a page or two back by now. It will enlighten you if not delight you
 
Re: Cost of building

Hi ,
I'm hoping to do an extension and renovation of a farmhouse.Just wonder where you found your tradesmen? Also, did you employ an architect or draughtsmen? Thanks ballinap@gmail.com
 
There is an internet based (Irish) company that offers a lot of services for self-builders - Price Before You Build Ltd. We got a full Bill of Quantities for our 200 sq. meter dormer for about 250 euro - a hell of a lot cheaper than anywhere else. We knew exactly what our build would cost before we started, which made dealing with the bank a lot easier, and it also gave us great negotiating power when it came to dealing with trades & suppliers, knowing exactly what we should expect to pay for each job. We actually came in nearly 5% under budget - might be a first!
 
Hi Dave,

Welcome to AAM.

Can you confirm if you have any association with this company? Glowing recommendations on old threads from first time posters generally makes people wary.
 
Re: Architect fees

The RIAI official charge rate for architects is 8% which should include plans, applying for pp, sourcing a builder (where brown envelopes come in), surveyance work, on-going site management which means more than 4 or 5 visits during construction - if anything is wrong you don't tell the builder, you tell the architect to sort it out.
I know it is a rip-off, but that is the official rate.<snip>

I think you'll find that it may be a guide, as opposed to an official rate.
No architect worth his salt will touch "brown envelopes" in choosing a builder.
If you suspect him of playing favourites for financial gain or unfair advantage in the marketplace, report him to the RIAI.
They are empowered to remove his name from the Register of Architects for improper professional conduct.

As for saying that a rate of 8% is a rip-off, I beg to differ. Here's why:

A build of €200K yields €16K fees.

Say:
  • 4K to planning lodgement
  • 2K for further information/ planning Appeal Submissions
  • 4K to building regulation compliance/tender
  • 3K post-tender and working drawings
  • 3K on-site inspections and certification.

Let's just look at the work to planning lodgement stage.

From thefirst meeting to finished design [not build] can take 3-4 months or more of meetings to develop a concept, explore and resolve any differences between the spouses, look at other houses for inspiration ["I want it just like that"], perform site research and investigations, carry out a Development plan review, hold preliminary planning meetings, etc.
Several checks as noted in the Self Build FAQ will require to be carried out after the concept is approved and then the detail design starts.
Preparation or public notices and drawings, checking documents and lodgement of planning will take a week for a sole practitioner.
All that for €4K? David Grant charged €3.5K and he had a 60% failure rate!

Also please remember that the work in this and subsequent stages are intended to result in a set of formal Opinion of Compliance documents under which the architect takes full responsibility for the design of your house.

The bottom line is that all of the work noted above takes time and an architect can only take on so much work while giving a good attentive service. Most practices are lucky to see an income of 50% of gross.

Assuming your architect does five houses in a year [80K Gross] carries PI [€1-2K] and runs an office in a town centre [say 10K/annum for rent, 10K secretary, 10K running costs] is a member of the RIAI [600 membership fee and say 400 CPD conferences] he'd be lucky to see a nett take home pay of around €40K.

Out of which will come say 12K mortgage and 10K food leaving about 18K for other bills, kids schooling, medical expenses and if he's very luck, a holiday.

I see no new BMW in there, more like a Golf and a mini MPV over five years.

I'm not defending any very high fees some practices may [or may not] charge BTW - I'm just pointing out that when you employ an architect, you're getting a professional service overseeing the design and production of a once off product and it has to be paid for.

You might think - "Oh I could get a good second had car for what I'm paying my architect."

You could, but did you know it takes 5 Billion dollars to develop a new car design from scratch? And that car can be mass produced to recoup the losses? Your house design process cannot be reproduced like that. Each house design process is unique, a once-off and each has to pay for itself.

I hope this adds to your understand of the process and the costs involved.

:)

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]
 
Re: Architect fees

David Grant charged €3.5K and he had a 60% failure rate!

Why mention this individual?
He claimed to be a Naval Architect - surely the word "Naval" was a hint?

Lets not mention this person - Primetime made him famous, yet he was the only dubious character they could find in the whole Country!
At least the professional journalists at BBC don't run a whole programme on one cowboy.

One in 3.8 million, is not bad. How many crooked Solicitors hit the headlines lately?
How many unqualified Surgeons or Doctors convicted of attempted murder?

Reputation is very important. Do your homework.
Always get references and get 3 quotes minimum... for any work, i.e contact 3 Designers, 3 Builders etc. for clear written quotes.

Remember Oranges are not the only fruit.
 
btw, there is no 'official charge rate' recommended by the RIAI, and even if there was it would not be inforceable. They do publish fee surveys every couple of years, which are available to the public, and you should request a copy of this (either from the RIAI or ask your architect for it, he will have a copy.)
 
Re: Architect fees

Why mention this individual?

He was mentioned in the context of justifying a competent qualified architect's fees.

He claimed to be a Naval Architect - surely the word "Naval" was a hint?

I performed two google searches

David Grant Naval Architect
and
"David Grant" +Naval +Architect

The only "hit" where his proper name was mentioned in connection with the phrase Naval Architect was your post above.

Lets not mention this person - Primetime made him famous, yet he was the only dubious character they could find in the whole Country!
At least the professional journalists at BBC don't run a whole programme on one cowboy.

Prime Time was not the only source on Mr. Grant - apparently there was a previous Scottish expose which I cannot find right now.
And I think you'll agree that there have been many dubious characters exposed on Prime Time - thankfully few of them were architects.
As regards Mr. Grant's other appearances in De Meeja, here you go;

[broken link removed]
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/5202781.article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6396270.ece
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/london-man-fined-in-protection-of-title-case/579135.article
[broken link removed]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j57kdefx8Jo

One in 3.8 million, is not bad.
Are you suggesting that there are 3.8 million architects in Ireland? Shirley Knot.
How many crooked Solicitors hit the headlines lately?
A few
How many unqualified Surgeons or Doctors convicted of attempted murder?
Ehrm, not many, actually.
Where exactly are you going with your rebuttal, RKQ?

David Grant was not typical of the Architects in Ireland - that was why the RIAI were so rightfully incensed at his misuse of the title architect.

OTC he was the exception that highlighted the general unprotected nature of the professional title "architect".
Reputation is very important. Do your homework.
<snip>.

As you can see from the links above, I do my homework.
For your viewing pleasure, here is Mr. Grant's current website.

http://www.inspiredesign.org/

It states; inter alia;
-------------
"He has been consulted as an expert & written articles published in "The Sunday Times" & "The Irish Independent" Newspapers."
-------------
Note - it does not state "he has been the subject of articles in the Sunday Times and The Irish Independent - he claims to have written them!

=================

But in general we agree RKQ. There are very few like David Grant in Ireland. In the past five years I've seen the handiwork of only two.

ONQ.
 
As a Chartered Quantity Surveyor can I please advise any self builders or anyone building a house not to waste €250 in employing someone to prepare a Bill of Quantities. There is no benefit in doing so in a one off house unless it will cost of €1m to build. Send out your plans to most builders and they will give you a detailed breakdown. Even if they dont insist that they do as most builders are desperate for work. I accept that a Bill of Quantities will list out all the materials required but in most self builds their will be changes throughout the build process. Of course banks want cost certainty but this is easily achieved by using a cost/m2 and adding a few contingency sums. Anyway if you are going down the self build route you should have some experience of building and a piece of paper with a list of materials is not going to solve all your problems.
 
Patrick2008,
I am suprised at your post. If there is no Bill of Quantities how do you propose that any non-builder would have the experience or knowledge that would enable them to make an informed decision on which is the best value tender that they have received?

If you insist on a builder producing a bill of quantites or is often the case in tenders that quantities do not form the basis of the contract, how does the client know the standard of goods that have been selected by the contractor. In this regard the cheapest price will always win and this may not be indicative of like being compared with like in the tendering process.

In this environment consumers need as much surety as possible before embarking on any project and by spending a small sum up front thwey are aware of the full cost of the project and do not become exposed to the dreaded 'extra' or 'variable' that will occur when the differences of interpretation, opinion and understanding become aparent through the project.
 
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