Job Loss in Ireland Today

That may well be but there is no doubt where the big money was directed.
The well heeled professionals in the IDA/ENT IRL weren`t interested in helping small irish companies and visiting their workshops......no it was much nicer to fly off to u.s. to tempt u.s multinationals with irish tax payers money to set up here....much more glamourous, don’t you think.
I work very closely with Enterprise Ireland and find a massive difference between their Irish based staff and their overseas staff. Their Irish based staff are incompetent, slow and uninventive. They are the stereotypical civil servants (I am not suggecting that all civil or public servants are like this!). Their overseas staff, on the other hand, is excellent. They are efficient, dynamic and utterly professional. They will do everything they can to promote Irish service and manufacturing businesses in their efforts to develop exports. Ironically the biggest obstacle they face is their own colleges in Ireland. It is no coincident that the overseas offices are staffed by people from the private sector on fixed term contracts.


However i do acknowledge the IDA`s success, but feel that our niche and advantages have now gone to lower cost economies who are still within the E.U. Even if we had developed some big irish multinationals, no doubt they would also be moving to cheaper cost countries.
Another problem is we won`t be getting such generous funding from the E.C in future.
Clearly the future is one of lower wages if ireland is to have low or moderate unemployment. Our government could give a lead here ,as they set the salary levels of our public servants...judging from past experience that`s not going to happen.
We have Irish Multinationals and they either manufacture in cheap economies (Dimplex manufacture 100% in Asia) or they grow and invest in larger economies (CRH, Greencore etc) We do have smaller Irish companies that have grown from nothing ten years ago to control over 90% of the world market in their field (Creganna Medical devices etc) and many Irish companies have followed their customers to lower cost economies by opening up local offices and manufacturing plants. The main barrier to doing this is not money but the very low quality of Irish management personnel in high tech manufacturing. In my experience this is one of the areas where the Americans excel.

I also don't understand the logic of the IDA funding foreign companies that are in direct competition with indigenious irish companies.
I have not seen a clear case where they have. On the other hand the companies they have brought here are happy to buy locally where they can (the French being the notable exception).
 
I have not seen a clear case where they have. On the other hand the companies they have brought here are happy to buy locally where they can (the French being the notable exception).

This
[broken link removed]

is in direct competition with these
intelligo, qbs, sort my books and many others.
 
Their are a fair number of manufacturing jobs going East, but this is not anything different to whats happening in the rest of Europe and the US. I was reading the Sunday Times yersterday they had a piece about the German economy doing well,it expanded by 3.7% last year and unemployment went down by 1%, but the DAX 30 ( 30 biggest German companies) laid off 44,000 workers, and are forcing workers to cut their pay and conditions to keep their jobs.

About 2 weeks ago a press release was issued by a FG candidate in West Dublin stating that the Lucent Alcatel plant was closing with the loss of about 350 jobs, the company had to come out publicly and state that only 70 jobs were going as part of a global round of 10,000 job cuts. So, some of the extra attention over the last few weeks to job cuts is related to the election.

[broken link removed]

Their are also a record 14,000 job vacancies in tech, and one of the main problems is the lack of graduates in the sector. The number of PHD students in University is to double in the next 6 years, and the state backed R&D is to expand substantially and close the gap with some of our fellow European countries.

A case example that I would give is Cork, where I am from, Between the plants in Fermoy and Pfizer about 1,000 jobs are under threat or will be lost ( about 500 jobs in the Pfizer plants could still be saved if the plants are sold on). One of the two Pfizer plants in question makes Lipitor which will be going off patent soon, Walmart are selling generic drugs off patent for $4 per script, and the second plant was to be the site of their new blockbuster drug which failed trials.

I can think of 4 plants that are expanding in Cork in the tech and pharma sector creating over 2,000 jobs, e.g. Amgen, Eli Lilly etc. Beyond that VMWare and Vivendi are to create another 500 jobs, so the net effect in Cork will be a net gain of quality jobs. The media don't seem to understand that sometimes plants close in the private sector because the sales aren't there, not just because of high costs. Unemployment in the Cork region is 3.7% AFAIK.

The basic wage in Poland is €1.30, here €8.30 for low end jobs we will never be able to compete that's just a fact of life, and yes our wages are high here which may put off some companies alright. The workforce has expanded by over 3% net per year ( after losses) for the last few years, a major reason for this high increase has been Poles etc. coming here and filling positions that would otherwise be left vacant, if left vacant that in itself creates inflation because of the need to attract people to fill the posts, not all the jobs in an economy can be high end.
 
That report was commissioned by DCU. Strange that this report hasn't been made available to the public. Could it be that the figures are fudged and that DCU are only interested in keeping there course numbers up?
I have heard other people say the same thing as the survey results to me, not using that survey as a source, their was a big falloff after the dotcom crash in enrollments, and they are finding it hard to find skilled graduates. Could it be that you are being cynical because the survey doesn't agree with you point of view.
 
I agree with Sunrocks point, we have put too many of our eggs into the multinational basket, resources should be diverted from the IDA towards Enterprise Ireland. From what I heard the motorola operation in cork was actually profitable but not profitable enough for headquarters in america. We will never grow indiginous technology by concentrating so much on multinationals. The intellectual powerhouse of these companies are in america and thats where the real development happens. Even high skilled irish workers in these companies only see a small part of the overall technology of these companies. Ask yourself this question if Intel decided to close their irish operations would the Intel workers be able to set up a similar company manufacturing semi conductors even on a small scale, the answer is no. We have to build our own companies from scratch, like CRH, like ryanair. That means that serious money has to be invested . Ireland has a low percentage of PHD graduates, true. However there are few irish companies and even multinationals in ireland that would be fully able to employ them, most end up emigrating.
 
All pay should be peformance related.This flush out the waisters who do as little as possible and are protected 100% by the unions.It is daylight robbery what some employee up to.
 
What's worst is these are high end jobs that are going and being replaced by burger flippers,pizza slicers and retail assistants.I saw figures the other day where the bottom 40% of workers are not even paying tax.
When stamp duty goes i'd love to know,where the money is going to come from !.


They still pay VAT on practically every penny they spend not to mention the other forms of indirect taxation car,tv licence,prsi etc. All this comes to be a far higher percentage of a lower base not the same for the top earners who can avail of the FF tax loopholes.
Scary thought that nearly half the working population are earning the bare minimum wage yet the average earnings this year are expected to rise to €34k, can only balance by figuring that there must be a fairly large percentage of the population on top earning a nice crust.
 
I seem to remember a recent poll showed Ireland had more new-made millionaires per head of population than any other 'developed' country! :D

It would seem sensible given the drift of jobs to the Indian and Chinese continents that new indiginous industry be developed. However the questions then are (a) what field(s) could Ireland excel in (b) where would the intellectual resources to develop them come from (c) how could they compete when foreign investment is treated preferentially in terms of taxation.

These issues are particularly poignant for small businesses and exploratory ventures and are probably the reason they don't feature in Ireland.
 
good point marie, this is the sort of thinking that is now required, there needs to be think tanks like in america, but the government has to act on their recomendations, there was a task force set up on the physical sciences a number of years ago, alot of effort was put into it, but hardly any of its recomendations was implemented, why because it would involve big changes in teaching etc and the government did not want to upset the teachers. As Eddie hobbs pointed out on prime time last week only one of his recomendations on ripp off republic was implemented, the lifting of the groceries order, in the mean time ireland is becoming more uncompetitive because of a failure of government to tackle the vested interests.
 
Hopefully the recent taste of the good life and the confidence gleaned from punching above its weight internationally has produced the Zeitgeist in Ireland where strong leadership and initiative can take root.........visionary leadership which is above partisan and vested interests. Is there any chance? So many highly-talented leaders in the fields of commerce and industry work outside Ireland. Certainly there is a disproportionate number of movers and shakers in the top echelons of British business and industry who are Irish. I don't think money alone is an inducement; a clearly-defined challenge with space to innovate might be.
 
If the government were really serious about developing indigenous knowledge based high tech manufacturing they would be doing what the Japanese did in the 50's, the Koreans did in the 90's and the Chinese are doing now; they would be pouring money into existing businesses to cover most or all of the risk associated with R&D and product development, they would be 100% funding joint ventures between third level institutions and industry and they would be offering the same level of support to existing businesses that need to up skill that they offer to micro businesses that are spun off research projects in Universities.
If they want to know how to do it they should read a biography of the first 10-15 years of Sony.
 
they would be pouring money into existing businesses to cover most or all of the risk associated with R&D and product development,

The problem with that approach, for Ireland 2007, is that they would end up suffocating small business in paperwork, red tape and bureaucracy. By the time any money is actually awarded, the company will have long since perished.

How about some tax breaks instead? - far easier to administer. Even just leveling the playing field so that people who do want to start a new knowledged based company are stung for tax, would help.

Reduced tax credits and PRSI entitlements do not encourage people to start companies.
 
Was talking to some people involved in the games industry recently and they are quite dismissive of tax breaks. Fine if you are a large multinational generating large profits and want to write-off any R&D against tax liabilities but little use to small innovatives companies that are many years from making a profit (if ever).

Labour costs were a concern but the lack of available talent was the biggest one. Most talent needs to be imported. There is little point spending billions "incentivizing" R&D when we don't have the available skills base here. Reminds me of ComReg's drive to increase broadband proliferation by selling the benefits of broadband to the public when the problem was actually a complete lack of broadband infrastructure.

The government should focus on attracting the cream of foreign engineers and scientists from top Indian, Asian, Eastern European and Russian etc. universities to work/research here in our own universities. Then it will be very easy to motivate and spin-off companies for research and commercialisation.
 
I have heard other people say the same thing as the survey results to me, not using that survey as a source, their was a big falloff after the dotcom crash in enrollments, and they are finding it hard to find skilled graduates. Could it be that you are being cynical because the survey doesn't agree with you point of view.

I don't see where all these IT jobs are. Anyone I know in IT inlcuding myself isn't seeing it. Only places reporting it that I see are the media the agencies, and the colleges. The fall off in applicants because young people can see their peers having a hard time in IT. Where people having troubling filling places is where they are looking for specialist skills and experience. But a lot (most?) IT companies don't train their staff. So you reap what you sow IMO.
 
The problem with that approach, for Ireland 2007, is that they would end up suffocating small business in paperwork, red tape and bureaucracy. By the time any money is actually awarded, the company will have long since perished.
The paperwork is a big deal at the moment because most of the funding comes from EU structural funds. Funding that comes from local sources is not as bureaucratic. Why not supply specialists from Enterprise Ireland to take care of that for free?

How about some tax breaks instead? - far easier to administer. Even just leveling the playing field so that people who do want to start a new knowledged based company are stung for tax, would help.
There is already a scheme for that which front end loads grants for knowledge based companies that are starting up. It's called HPSU (High Potential Start Up) funding. The problem with that system is that these companies are snapped up by multinationals before that get a chance to grow so the knowledge and growth potential go over seas. There is little or nothing available for existing SME's that want to grow their business by moving into higher value added areas.

Was talking to some people involved in the games industry recently and they are quite dismissive of tax breaks. Fine if you are a large multinational generating large profits and want to write-off any R&D against tax liabilities but little use to small innovatives companies that are many years from making a profit (if ever).
Agreed. Corporation tax is 12.5% so getting it back on the tiny profit, if any, made by SME's does nothing to help them. Say a company makes 5% net profit on a turnover of €5 million. That's €250'000. The cost to run an R&D department with two engineers would be higher than that. What company will risk their entire profit on a high risk venture?

Labour costs were a concern but the lack of available talent was the biggest one. Most talent needs to be imported. There is little point spending billions "incentivizing" R&D when we don't have the available skills base here. .
I agree that labour costs are the major factor but I disagree that there is a shortage of talent, not in medical device anyway. The problem is that the talent is tied up in multinationals that manufacture here. The thing the government has to figure out is how to get that talent into private industry in Ireland and how private industry can us that talent to grow international businesses. The only way I can see it happen is to remove some or all of the risk for the talent and the businesses that want to employ it.

The government should focus on attracting the cream of foreign engineers and scientists from top Indian, Asian, Eastern European and Russian etc. universities to work/research here in our own universities. Then it will be very easy to motivate and spin-off companies for research and commercialisation.
What would stop them from setting up their companies back home when they were finished their research? Don't say they could do it by protecting the intellectual property generated by the universities because even multi-billion dollar companies can't do that.
 
Last edited:
...a big falloff after the dotcom crash in enrollments, and they are finding it hard to find skilled graduates. ...


...
Labour costs were a concern but the lack of available talent was the biggest one. Most talent needs to be imported. There is little point spending billions "incentivizing" R&D when we don't have the available skills base here. ...

Again I don't see where this is comming from, other than the media, colleges and recruitment agencies. Take Motorola, the closure is part of worldwide cost cutting exercise. Not lack of skilled workers, graduates.
 
Again I don't see where this is comming from, other than the media, colleges and recruitment agencies. Take Motorola, the closure is part of worldwide cost cutting exercise. Not lack of skilled workers, graduates.
I agree, it's all about wage costs for the MNC's
 
Anyone know why there is such a spate of Job losses in the last couple of weeks?
Is just that the media are turning their attention to it?

Yes. IMO.

Even in times of high employment, unemployment and closures happen. Thats not to say its as easy as walking from one job into another, as I don't believe that. Or at least into one well paid job to another. Theres a lot of low paid jobs that will be financially tough because of the high cost of living. Theres a lot of people living for the now, on credit.
 
Entrepreneur talent and R&D cannot flourish in the current milieu of (American-style) 'short-term-ism'. They need some fundamental security with transparent (un-corrupt!!!) and consistent government incentive as bedrock.
 
Back
Top