It's time to review the right to strike, or at least to strike intermittently.

Purple.

Problem with (cuts) is where do you start ? and more importantly where do you end ?
I believe that once you let something happen eg cuts, these cuts become the new normal and wages get dummed down on the altar of (solidarity).
To say (not Union way) or they (protect the haves from have nots) is simply a comment based on where you perceive todays unions , not the factual reality of how (for all their current flaws) they have aided workers.
 
Yet another example, where the public and the taxpayer is being held to ransom by trade unions.


Irish Independent
[broken link removed]

CIE does not exist for benefit of its employees. It is a vital public service which happens to employ people.

Brendan
 

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Not quite.

In watching most disputes (not just work) it ends up with poor management.
It can be that management just roll over or some unions being unreasonable.
You say CIE is vital , then it is vital for management to really manage.
This (on the face of it) seems a poor reason for unions to not co-operate .
Methinks this is part of a bigger issue of trust.
 
I was formally in a TU, once in the UK and once here but have not been a member for 12 years as it was a waste of money. It gave me no additional protection with my employers as I am well educated and able to stand up for myself. Any deals when you drill down into them often resulted in short term gain for long term loss. I've also sat on the other side of the table as a manager and listened to some of the ranting and ravings from leaders in front of their members and then met then the next day in a hotel café to hammer out a deal in peace and quiet. An awful lot of union behavior is just like a peacock strutting and showing off. People should always remember that unions are in a competitive business themselves and if SIPTU get a very good deal in Luas, what a selling point they have to other staff in other organisations, especially those in the NBRU in CIE. Member's subs pay union leaders wages and union leaders are rarely badly paid

Having said all of that, I'm also a firm believer that a knee jerk legislation banning strikes in response to what in essence is a minor strike in Luas which has no impact on 98% of the country would be an appalling decision. Unions were originally set up to protect workers from exploitation and anyone who thinks this doesn't occur is a naïve fool. There is still a role for them to play there and the threat of a picket can often force management to exercise some common sense. The problem nowadays is that the staff doing all the complaining are not always being "exploited" regardless of what they think and unions seem to spend most of their time protecting pay and benefits of people who are mainly well paid middle class, not working class.
 
thedaddyman.
(able to stand up for myself) = all well and good but never forget employer holds a bigger stick than you.
(well paid middle-class) etc = yes and no , most wages just cover expenses , few are well paid ,except when compared to poorly paid and thats not a good comparison.

Re Brendans post.
I heard SIPTU man on. What I took from him was that management had brought in new rotas without staff or equipment in place ,he could be a bluffer or it could be management are incompetent .
Methinks there is a pair of them in it, and I also worry about reportage (but thats another story) ie what the paper says ain,t necessarily correct.
 
Gerry Canning said:
I heard SIPTU man on. What I took from him was that management had brought in new rotas without staff or equipment in place ,he could be a bluffer or it could be management are incompetent .
Methinks there is a pair of them in it, and I also worry about reportage (but thats another story) ie what the paper says ain,t necessarily correct.
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I agree. As long as there are state run monopolies which are run by unsanctionable and unsackable executives I would be slow to heap all the blame on Unions. There are indeed two of them in it.
 
Gerry Canning said:
I heard SIPTU man on. What I took from him was that management had brought in new rotas without staff or equipment in place ,he could be a bluffer or it could be management are incompetent .
Methinks there is a pair of them in it, and I also worry about reportage (but thats another story) ie what the paper says ain,t necessarily correct.
Click to expand...

The SIPTU guy interviewed on TV3 didn't give a damn about staff or equipment... maybe the mask slipped - it was all about money for drivers. Anything else is just a smokescreen. More DARTs would mean more drivers. SIPTU don't care about that either to hear them. The more I see of SIPTU shop stewards, the more contempt it engenders.
All current drivers should be made to ride a packed rush hour DART. Maybe then they'd change their tune out of solidarity with their fellow workers. I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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odyssey06 said:
The SIPTU guy interviewed on TV3 didn't give a damn about staff or equipment... maybe the mask slipped - it was all about money for drivers. Anything else is just a smokescreen. More DARTs would mean more drivers. SIPTU don't care about that either to hear them. The more I see of SIPTU shop stewards, the more contempt it engenders.
All current drivers should be made to ride a packed rush hour DART. Maybe then they'd change their tune out of solidarity with their fellow workers. I wouldn't hold my breath.
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My understanding is that extra drivers have already been hired and trained or are being trained. Hence the staff will be in place and as someone said before, a train driver can only drive one train at a time. Hence I am not sure what extra workload the drivers will have unless they have a shorter turnaround at the end of the line. The 10 minute DART is an excuse, train drivers want to preserve a gap between then an Luas drivers which they see as a less complicated tax (which is probably true in fairness, since it takes a year to train a train driver and 6 weeks to train a Luas driver)
 
odyssey06 said:
The SIPTU guy interviewed on TV3 didn't give a damn about staff or equipment... maybe the mask slipped - it was all about money for drivers. Anything else is just a smokescreen. More DARTs would mean more drivers. SIPTU don't care about that either to hear them. The more I see of SIPTU shop stewards, the more contempt it engenders.
All current drivers should be made to ride a packed rush hour DART. Maybe then they'd change their tune out of solidarity with their fellow workers. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Click to expand...

Are you clairvoyant ?,
All I can go on is what I hear/read.
What I know is any dispute is very rarely one sided.
Of course any Union man wants money for his members, that's a far cry from your quote.
A steward would be silly not to want more drivers/members.
I presume Dart crowded only @ rush hour, I presume the drivers see this , maybe the compromise is to tweek the timing on rush hour only.
Again; theres a pair of them in it ie Management and Workers and it shows very poor leadership to use the Airways as an advertising post .
 
Gerry Canning said:
Are you clairvoyant ?,
All I can go on is what I hear/read.
What I know is any dispute is very rarely one sided.
Of course any Union man wants money for his members, that's a far cry from your quote. A steward would be silly not to want more drivers/members.
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It's not clear to me why this can't this be one of the disputes that is one sided?

All I can go on is what I'm seeing and this was straight from the steward's mouth in terms of being interviewed on TV. He was clearly prioritising increases for current members over gaining new members, and any other considerations. That is the only takeaway any reasonable person could draw from the interview.
 
If there's no additional work load on the drivers how is it any business of their how often their employer runs their trains?
What business is it of their how many drivers are employed?
Why on earth should the company have to consult the drivers about something like this?
 
Now there's a row between Jack O'Connor, SIPTU and Kieran Mulvey, WRC.

This is becoming more about SIPTU than Luas employees.
 
Sophrosyne said:
Now there's a row between Jack O'Connor, SIPTU and Kieran Mulvey, WRC.

This is becoming more about SIPTU than Luas employees.
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Transdev claimed last night that one of the "requirements" from SIPTU in negotiation was for new Luas drivers to only be assigned to anti-social hours late in the evening. So much for solidarity and equality.
 
Sophrosyne said:
Now there's a row between Jack O'Connor, SIPTU and Kieran Mulvey, WRC.

This is becoming more about SIPTU than Luas employees.
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Ironically this is about competition within the very competitive Union industry. It's competitive because it is shrinking due to the self-serving and destructive actions of Union leaders. That and the fact they have managed to but most unionised companies in the private sector out of business.
 
Purple said:
Ironically this is about competition within the very competitive Union industry. It's competitive because it is shrinking due to the self-serving and destructive actions of Union leaders. That and the fact they have managed to but most unionised companies in the private sector out of business.
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Ambulance staff going on trike in Waterford.. simply blackmail. I lived in Sheffield in the winter of strikes and it was appalling. Fire service on strike, hospital laundries on trike and heaven help the old folk with no family to bring in clean linen. I used to cross the road to avoid the picket lines with their collecting boxes. Totally selfish action is striking.
 
Marigold77 said:
I used to cross the road to avoid the picket lines with their collecting boxes. Totally selfish action is striking.
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Given the opportunity with the LUAS strike I'd cross the road in order to pass the picket line and not give them any money.
 
The Gardai start on 50% less than LUAS drivers. While they shouldn't go on strike they, more than nurses or teachers and certainly more than Tram drivers, should be paid more.
 
Just thinking ,
We have politicians on (strike) when to us it is obvious ,things will get sorted..
We have Luas drivers striking , when to us it is obvious , things will get sorted.

Maybe sack them all !
 
Purple said:
The Gardai start on 50% less than LUAS drivers. While they shouldn't go on strike they, more than nurses or teachers and certainly more than Tram drivers, should be paid more.
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The Gardai are on a bit more than the headlines would have you believe!
A newly-trained garda, after 32 weeks in Templemore, starts at €23,750. But there are payments for unsocial hours, overtime and other allowances. The actual average pay for a garda on frontline duty after one year on the job is €31,000. After seven years the basic is €42,138 and actual earnings average around €50,000. For un-promoted gardai (below the rank of sergeant) at mid-scale, the average gross pay at present is over €60,000 including all allowances and overtime. You may feel that this is not enough for a tough job but it is propaganda to describe it as "poverty".
Teachers are not on the bread-line either: the scale for new entrant teachers runs from €30,702 in the first year to €59,940 on the top of the scale.
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http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...pace-balloon-is-losing-altitude-34613890.html
 
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