Item outstanding on snag

J

JJJ

Registered User
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27
Hi there,

Any advise welcome!

My 2 bed duplex was meant to be ready end of March and had the first snag on the 8th June.

On the specification there should be a low level single socket in the kitchen and one in the bedroom - which there is not. mentioned this to builder and he nearly laughed in my face when I said I would be putting this in my next snag.

One item that I feel is a major one is that the WC in the main bathroom is in the wrong position as per the plans. It is positioned over to one side so your head is nearly hitting off the sink.

Put this in both snags and they still did not change it. My solicitor received a fax from their solicitor to ask why we had not closed. He sent them back a fax to say as there are items outstanding etc. Was left waiting for 10 days and then on Friday evening, I got a call from my solicitor to say that they refute my claim and that they request an expert be appointed to adjudicate the dispute. They have given 3 people that I can pick from.

Should I take this further? Anyone have any experience of this? And if I was to get a plumber to do this for me would it be expensive?
 
jjj, its a bit awkward really. If you go to the expence and go through all this really what do you hope to gain? The panel of experts they have given you are more than likely their sub contractors and will find in the builders favour. it this happens could you risk them serving you with notice to complete and not being able to do so in a short timescale. then they pull contracts, you lose your deposit and they sell the apt at a higher price. ( alternatively evertying could be ok and they move the toilet!!)
 
If you were to assume that the builder's intentions re: the proposed process were genuine (i.e. your case will get a fair hearing), then if you are satisfied that the evidence you have clearly indicates the plan re: placement of sockets and toilet, then you could go along with their proposed process on the basis you may have something to gain out of it.

If you were to assume the worst, then you could agree to the proposed process without any commitment to treat the outcome as binding, and thereby have nothing to lose, apart from your time.

Your solicitor should advise you though. While he is not being paid to decide for you, if he is passing on the info without commentary, I think it less than helpful.
 
I got a call from my solicitor to say that they refute my claim and that they request an expert be appointed to adjudicate the dispute. They have given 3 people that I can pick from.
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JJJ, if memory serves me right the standard building contract in Ireland (as issued by the Law Soc) allows for arbitration on disputes by a 3rd Party appointed from a list of experts approved jointly by the Construction Industry Federation and the President of the Law Society of Ireland.

I would ask your solicitor to go back to the builders and confirm that the three experts have been approved by the CIF and the LSI - if not then you should say that you are unhappy with the independence of the suggested "experts" and wish to propose your own.

From my experience you have a choice - give up your fight now and live with the problem or take the builder on and get what you paid for.

The one thing I would note is that you need to check if the specification and layout are actually covered under the contract or are they "non-binding" and "for information only".

BTW I am no legal expert so can only give personal opinions - some of the posters on this board from a legal background would be able to give more specific advice
 
I would ask your solicitor to go back to the builders and confirm that the three experts have been approved by the CIF and the LSI - if not then you should say that you are unhappy with the independence of the suggested "experts" and wish to propose your own.

From my experience you have a choice - give up your fight now and live with the problem or take the builder on and get what you paid for.
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Having had the experience recently as a FTB of being served with a notice to complete, my guess is that you'll find that the three experts they have appointed are NOT approved by the CIF/LSI. They are putting the pressure on you and 9 times out of ten that will sort the problem for them.

Couple of things...

If you let it go, you will go on to live in that house and it will always bug you that you didnt get the product you paid for. If it was me, I would want to make every effort to pursue them till they did it right.
HOWEVER, be under no illusions. As nt00deep has pointed out above, if you decide to take them on, you may very well get a 'notice to complete'. When it gets to this stage, you really have to have your homework done - you and your solicitor must be confident that you are covered legally in what you are fighting for. To lose the duplex (and your deposit) would be a blunder of mega proportions.

The one thing I would note is that you need to check if the specification and layout are actually covered under the contract or are they "non-binding" and "for information only".
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I would emphasise getting this point raised by efm checked out. In my case, any 'plans' were for informational purposes'. Same again with the showhouse - it has no legal relevance to what you end up with.

My suggestion in short...1. check to make sure the plans are legally binding - and your confident that elements of the build are not as set out in the plans. 2. Assuming the plans are legally binding, I would get your solicitor to find out if the set of arbitrators are approved. 3. See if there is anything else you can hang them on in order to get what you want. Any breaches of Building regs, etc.
Take it to that stage and see how you go.
 
Some very good advice here jjj. Just again to back up a point just made. I think if you check in the plans/brochure it will almost always indicate "layout/pictures" etc are for illustration puropses and may change. It is unlikely that your deeds will show where the wc is (cant be sure) but on such an item i dont think i would be willing to lose a deposit/duplex/uplift on price on it. im sure the builder is well covered legally and will have been through this before. I would rather be standing in the duplex in a couple of months thinking it would have been nice to have the wc in the other side of the room than standing outside in a few months looking up at a for sale sign with the builder re-selling the apt for 30k more! I hope this is not a bit negative for you. But im sure other people have come out on the wrong side of these types of disputes. Your solicitor will more than likely have to charge you more for carrying on with this process. But then some would say you should get what you paid for. I think be careful and get professional advice but dont waste a fortune.
 
money man said:
Your solicitor will more than likely have to charge you more for carrying on with this process.
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From what I can remember, if it goes to arbitration, whichever side the decision goes against picks up the tab of any extra expenses incurred during arbitration.
 
Hi, money man is dead right. No one wants to be bullied by a builder but there is no way he is going to move that toilet for anyone. He should at least put in the sockets for you as a compromise.
 
liosbourne said:
Hi, money man is dead right. No one wants to be bullied by a builder but there is no way he is going to move that toilet for anyone. He should at least put in the sockets for you as a compromise.
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If he is contracted to do it (ie. if its in the plans and the plans are legally binding), he should be made do it.
 
Compromise a good suggestion. Should be in the specification that there is xx No. of sockets per room anyway so if your short this is a very valid point. try to come to an agreemtent if you can contact the site foreman/developer.
 
Many thanks for all the advise.

Went up to the house yesterday and noticed that the toilet in the ensuite is not flushing and the light also wasn't working...

My friend was with me and said 'listen you need to assert yourself here - you're paying money for this'..so I rang the builder and asked him to come over to the house.

I pointed out to him the toilet not flushing, sockets missing for the washing machine and dishwasher and the light not working in the bathroom. He said he will get them sorted for me.

I asked my friends opinion on the position of the toilet and she said that she agreed that it was in the wrong position but that I could live with it.

When I got home yesterday evening, there was a letter from the builders office reconfirming the fax they sent to the solictor and that they will start charging interest.

I spoke to builder this morning and mentioned letter, which he said he knew nothing about. I mentioned the items outstanding and he assured me that they will be done, that he is on site as they are in the next phase and I have his mobile number. So I phoned the solicitor and am signing tonight!

Please God they look after the bits for me.

thanks for all the great advise!

JJJ
 
JJJ,

You probably don't want to hear this but I wouldn't sign!!

Builders will promise the sun, moon and stars just to get you to sign - once you sign you have no hold over them and they will string you out.

If you are getting new sockets put in this means new wiring, breaking and repairing of plaster board and repainting - did the builder give a date by which they would be sorted out ?

Has your solicitor received any official notice from the builders solicitor that they intend to charge interest ? I'd say not

If you sign and move in I am nearly 100% certain that you will not have everything fixed

Hold out until everything is fixed to your satisfaction !
 
Write a letter and copy in solicitors and builders and say that you have agreed with xxxx site foreman that they will repair all defects and that once they are completed you will be in a position to complete immediately. So that you can show that you are not holding up the completion due to lack of funds etc.
 
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