Is there a growing lack of personal responsibility in Irish society?

Bronte said:
Struggling, I'm going to ask the mods to move your posts on here to your main thread. It's better to get a fuller picture of who you are and where you are coming from. Also figures can tend to be boring to a lot of people, not me :eek: but AAM needs a bit of life background to work properly and it helps to get everybody to partake.
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Done.
 
Billo said:
Lots of people lived within their means during the boom. I for one am sick and tired of hearing from the media and politicians bankers etc. that we all lived beyond our means and now we all have to pay. But why should those who lived within their means be asked now to bail out those who lived beyond their means. Those who expect to be bailed out are often expecting to hold on to their assets and lifestyle etc.

Billo
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well said Billo. I lived within by means as did 90% of the people I know in my immediate circle. Yes, those of us who bought houses are in negative equity, and some by large amounts, but none of these people lived the high life during the so called boom...no fancy holidays or apt's purchased abroad, no 5 series beamers, no designer kitchens
(I do know some people also who did go mad and spent,spent, spent).
But there are a lot of people out there, and a few on here who've discovered AAM lately, who want everyone to get debt forgiveness (and hold on to their houses) including:
- the landlord with several BTL's
- the spend spend spend folk who bought the big houses, way beyond their means
- the cute hoors who've been collecting rent and not paying their mortgage

And I'm supposed to feel bad about not wanting debt forgiveness for everyone...no chance.
Yes, there are genuine people in serious trouble out there. They would be much better off in a lot of cases giving up their houses under a new bankruptcy scheme and starting again by renting etc, rather than trying to pay mortgages that will be beyond their means for years on end. These people need help and should be helped.
(A probation period after declaring bankruptcy such as 3 or 5 years in which you could'nt get a mortgage again...this would help keep the opportunists away from trying to avoid debts they can still afford)
 
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This is the point - when people could renew their 5 series buy some sh1t hole in Bulgaria - eat in Chapter 1 every week they did not give a sh1t about anyone! Now their problem is everyones problem.

What about this scenario - debt forgiveness comes in say for the people currently in bother. The program completes.

What happens then to the person(s) say who in 5 years time have a problem - they bought a house in 2006 for 400K put 100K deposit and got a 300K loan over 35 years.

What happens if they are suddenly in difficulty?

The only solution for mortgage debt - property tax for elderly - grants for people with assetts. The debt \ grant needs to be accrued against whatever assetts are available - then in order for the assett to change ownership the debt must be discharged in full or the assett is sold and debt is first in the queue.

Defferred debt needs to also attract an interest that makes its an option and assistance for people in genuine trouble but not attractive for the won't pays.
 
I have read umpteen threads on this forum about the MARP process and believe this is a major contributor to peoples irresponsible approach to their mortgage debt.

I am also aware of people who are in the resolution process, who are paying their mortgage company a token amount each, month whilst arranging to buy a similar house in the same area worth today's values, all paid for in cash and bought outright via one of their siblings. When the new house is purchased only then will they hand the keys back to the bank on their old home.

There is too much faffing about with MARP and the banks are incapable of making any form of resolution.

As a TAX payer my blame lies primarily with the banks.
 
Gardener said:
I am also aware of people who are in the resolution process, who are paying their mortgage company a token amount each, month whilst arranging to buy a similar house in the same area worth today's values, all paid for in cash and bought outright via one of their siblings. When the new house is purchased only then will they hand the keys back to the bank on their old home.
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I hadn't heard of this. I don't need to put into words what it makes me feel! :rolleyes:
 
To be fair I think the case referenced by Gardener related to a Post put on here in respect of action taken by a relation of the poster. These things tend to happen and it's not a reflection of an endemic problem.
The core tenet of the OP is individual responsibility for their/our own actions.
Many of the responses are agian looking for a focus of blame such as Government or Banks. While individuals in Government and in Banks did play their part in causing the Economic crash, not many people can claim that they were forced into borrowing money that they could not afford to repay.
I accept full responsibility for my own borrowings and the consequences of not meeting repayments on my loans. I don't see why all borrowers can not see the equity in this. Having said that, I also believe that those in genuine difficulties should be offered a solution and ultimately a chance to start again without carrying a level of unsustainable debt. This solution can not involve wholesale debt forgiveness and should only be made available to those whose debt position is unsustainable. The new legislation does have its flaws, but may well offer some light at the end of the tunnel for those, most in need. Lets see how it operates!
 
Unfortunately the case I speak of was not mentioned on this forum but was a lot closer to home, my daughters friends' parents. Its a little more endemic than one might think.
 
44brendan said:
To be fair I think the case referenced by Gardener related to a Post put on here in respect of action taken by a relation of the poster. These things tend to happen and it's not a reflection of an endemic problem.
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I wouldn't be so sure. I too know someone planning this. They won't be able to I think but it is the thinking out there now. Now sure how prevelant it is.

We've even seen a bankrupt developer manage to come back and live in his previous mansion which was bought by his in law. People can learn a lot from the actions of developers.
 
Delboy said:
well said Billo. I lived within by means as did 90% of the people I know in my immediate circle. Yes, those of us who bought houses are in negative equity, and some by large amounts, but none of these people lived the high life during the so called boom...no fancy holidays or apt's purchased abroad, no 5 series beamers, no designer kitchens
(I do know some people also who did go mad and spent,spent, spent).
But there are a lot of people out there, and a few on here who've discovered AAM lately, who want everyone to get debt forgiveness (and hold on to their houses) including:
- the landlord with several BTL's
- the spend spend spend folk who bought the big houses, way beyond their means
- the cute hoors who've been collecting rent and not paying their mortgage

And I'm supposed to feel bad about not wanting debt forgiveness for everyone...no chance.
Yes, there are genuine people in serious trouble out there. They would be much better off in a lot of cases giving up their houses under a new bankruptcy scheme and starting again by renting etc, rather than trying to pay mortgages that will be beyond their means for years on end. These people need help and should be helped.
(A probation period after declaring bankruptcy such as 3 or 5 years in which you could'nt get a mortgage again...this would help keep the opportunists away from trying to avoid debts they can still afford)
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Hear hear, I totally agree. Find these attitudes very frustrating.
 
The bankers pinched the money and your still blaming wrong people!!!

"This bank got around
€​
5 billion in bailout money, a chunk of which was supposed to be used for debt forgiveness for customers who had taken out mortgages during the boom and now were deep in negative equity and unable to make repayments because of pay cuts or job loss.

How many mortgages like that have you written off? the bank boss was asked. None, was the answer.
The banks are holding on to all the bailout money and the government seems powerless to do anything about it."

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/r...nomy-is-palpable-178080531.html#ixzz2Bq2eTKqL
 
And the moral of the story is, why are we as citizens of this country fighting amongst one another, over who gets a write down of debt or who doesn't?

We have all being douped. The tax payer is being being used as a mug by these delinquient banks and all we as a nation can do is blame each other.

Come on folks, you're more intelligent than this.
 
Its the old divide and conquer. And now they have used the money, given for the purpose of debt write downs, to re-inflate their pension pot so they can sail off into the sunset. What a swindle ! no matter how they dress it up. What I can't understand for the life of me is how the great and the good of this country accept this. People who bang on about how they lived within their means in the good times etc. etc. and are looking for public floggings are really missing the point and are nothing more than puppets on strings. You have already bought and paid for debt write downs, but are too blinkered to see you have been robbed again.
 
Well said GDuffy.

Take the councils as an example, they are currently taking mortgage applications from their present tenants, with a 60% price reduction on current property values. The council are arranging these mortgages at a variable rate. This is a disaster waiting to happen. I know of one applicant who has successfully been mortgage approved while having an impaired credit history.

We all are aware that the councils have no funds. We are also told as good citizens to pay our property charges because the council needs money to fully operate. Anyone who doesn't corporate is accused of having no moral code. The flog 'em on the street brigade will also complain about the non property tax payers. Can you blame them for not paying when they see so much waste going on around them, houses been handed away for a song and blatant stupidity.

The same goes for the banks.

When will people finally wake up?
 
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