Is Moving Your €€ out of Ireland unpatriotic??

The fact that our fantastic government is jamming every qango/state board with its mates as we speak, is that unpatriotic/sabotage?
Anyone that doesnt take any few euros that they have out of this basketcase country deserves whats coming, and that is total collapse, new currency, devaluation etc.
There have been too many people suckling at the teat of mother Ireland, it finally dried up, but some of them keep on suckling.
 
The peoples money does not belong to the government - the governments money belongs to the people. Not only have our government been robbing us for years, but now they are embarrassing us too, and making us a laughing stock. I love this country, but it's hard to be patriotic to a corrupt incompetant joke. Bring on the revolution. Then we can be patriots once again.
 
"unpatriotic" ? "Sabotage"? This hardly constitutes reasoned argument. Patriotism is to a nation not to a group of immoral institutions. Sabotage implies a deliberate attack to undermine or destroy something. Regarding the banking system, the banks, developers and the government needed no help from the people. Greed, incompetence and stupidity underpinned the current collapse. The public is already in massive hock ; immorally accepted on our behalf by a government with NO mandate to do this. And the people who seek to act prudently, wisely and in their own best interest, and that of their families, should now or even could now be accused by some of a lack of patriotism and sabotage? This beggars belief. Merkel mentioned recently that she adopted the attitude of a "hausfrau" (Housewife) to economics. Well done Mrs M. and well-done Germany. Pity we weren't so straight-up. We got " I'll spend it if I have it" and "light touch "( meaning virtually no touch) regulation. If there is a lack of patriotism or sabotage in Irish banking, it didn't come from Joe and Joanne Public. If there are fingers 2 be pointed, please point them in the right direction here.
 
Who is funding the banks?? Us.. via IMF loans and central bank.... So when bank capital falls we the people are plugging the gap so therefore we the people ( including those not fortunate enough to have tens of thousands in the bank) plug the hole.
 
Transferring money abroad is a symptom of a lack of confidence in Irish banking, not the cause. It follows FROM a lack of faith in the Irish banks rather than being the cause. To claim otherwise is a logical fallacy ( which even has a latin name); post-hoc ergo propter hoc. X followed Y, therefore Y caused X. (this inference is fallacious and does not logically follow).Doubtless there is a case to say that ongoing withdrawals further undermine confidence, but the root of the problem is a justifiable lack of faith in the system itself, caused not by withdrawals but by systemic failures which must be addressed first before confidence can return. Claims of a lack of patriotism and sabotage merely muddy the waters. The Irish Constitution places special emphasis on the family in national life. Thus, if people act to protect their families by protecting their financial status and transfer money to safer, stronger, better regulated foreign banks, it can be argued that they are indeed acting in the ultimate national interest, as laid down by the Constitution.
 
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Who has sabotaged what??? Is abandoning ship (with an indecent amount of money) patriotic??? What about staying after having sabotaged the ship and prevent a change in command to try and stop it from sinking???
 
BICIP said:
Who is funding the banks?? Us.. via IMF loans and central bank.... So when bank capital falls we the people are plugging the gap so therefore we the people ( including those not fortunate enough to have tens of thousands in the bank) plug the hole.
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But the fact that the Irish public are on the hook for this debt is the problem in the first place. Private debts should have stayed private, there should have been precisely €0 gone towards saving any bank or their creditors.

horusd said:
Transferring money abroad is a symptom of a lack of confidence in Irish banking, not the cause. It follows FROM a lack of faith in the Irish banks rather than being the cause.
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I have said this many times before, but never in so few and concise words.

horusd said:
The Irish Constitution places special emphasis on the family in national life. Thus, if people act to protect their families by protecting their financial status and transfer money to safer, stronger, better regulated foreign banks, it can be argued that they are indeed acting in the ultimate national interest, as laid down by the Constitution.
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Very good point! I never even thought of that.
 
Money is being pulled from Irish banks and it's flowing into institutions like Rabo and Nationwide UK. But it seems to me that the latter can't operate in their present form without a functioning home-grown Irish banking system. As I understand it, it's not possible to operate an account in either of the above named banks without having an account in an Irish bank: deposits and withdrawals are mediated through the Irish banking system. What would happen in the event of a collapse of the Irish banks? How exactly could funds be accessed from the foreign owned banks?
 
kdoc said:
Money is being pulled from Irish banks and it's flowing into institutions like Rabo and Nationwide UK. But it seems to me that the latter can't operate in their present form without a functioning home-grown Irish banking system. As I understand it, it's not possible to operate an account in either of the above named banks without having an account in an Irish bank: deposits and withdrawals are mediated through the Irish banking system.
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Kinda. Your current account can be held with any of the 5 banks that offer current accounts in Ireland. That includes 2 non Irish banks. Namely, NIB and Ulster Bank.

kdoc said:
What would happen in the event of a collapse of the Irish banks? How exactly could funds be accessed from the foreign owned banks?
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In that unlikely event, you could still transfer money to NIB and Ulster. Also, it would not be hard for Rabo etc to allow international transfers.
 
Chris said:
It is crises like this that shows how feeble and fraudulent the fractional reserve system is. Banks are in a permanent state of insolvency, but protected by governments and their central banks. The risk of this is buttered over and completely ignored in the good times, but it is a huge risk nevertheless.
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I understand the concept of fractional reserve. Can you help me join the dots with the Basel accord?
At a bank in Ireland that I can't name, I was told by a Project Manager implementing I.T. changes that were required by Basel that senior managers were signing off that all changes had been completed when in fact they hadn't - they just wanted to wash their hands of the project.
I'm moving my Euros out of Ireland. Seems too risky with all these "unprecedented" economic events that keep erupting. Does anyone have positive/negative comments about the services of TransferMate?
 
"In that unlikely event, you could still transfer money to NIB and Ulster. Also, it would not be hard for Rabo etc to allow international transfers".

Ciaran, if it's unlikely that Irish banks will go under, should we be getting our garters in a knot by joining in the present run on the banks? Maybe just some prudent diversification is all that's necessary for depositors.
 
MoolahVoodoo said:
I understand the concept of fractional reserve. Can you help me join the dots with the Basel accord?
At a bank in Ireland that I can't name, I was told by a Project Manager implementing I.T. changes that were required by Basel that senior managers were signing off that all changes had been completed when in fact they hadn't - they just wanted to wash their hands of the project.
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I'm not sure what was going on there, but the new rules under Basel III are not due for enforcement until 2013, and some of them not until 2019.
 
kdoc said:
"In that unlikely event, you could still transfer money to NIB and Ulster. Also, it would not be hard for Rabo etc to allow international transfers".

Ciaran, if it's unlikely that Irish banks will go under, should we be getting our garters in a knot by joining in the present run on the banks? Maybe just some prudent diversification is all that's necessary for depositors.
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Unlikely doesn't mean won't happen...
 
kdoc said:
Maybe just some prudent diversification is all that's necessary for depositors.
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This is ordinary peoples much needed savings not an investment portfolio.

I guess some have far more than others to afford them the latitude of such expression.

Ordinary people are right to prioritise over their savings, and untill there is fundamental reforms made, protecting incumbents throughout the system should not be one of them.

Even prudent Germans are moving their money to the Swiss franc. That puts us into context!
 
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