Is disposing of assets to avail of the Fair Deal Scheme fair?

[Purple]

like most I can see both sides.

You do get fewer benefits throughout your life if you aren’t unemployed, disabled etc. And that continues.

However what galls is that two families with the same income, pay the same taxes etc… one spends and the other saves and the saver ends up paying for long term care.

But of course it’s about need. And we can’t predict what we will need in old age. Getting rid of savings and property to avail of state support makes financial sense it seems in this case.

But it seems morally wrong to me and I’m not sure why, maybe it’s jealousy as my parents would not dream of doing that. So if needed the fair deal will take a chunk of their estate.
They were savers all their lives and have a substantial bank account. Currently it’s being spent on care to keep them in their own home, long may that continue. Their kids aren’t in need, their grandkids.., well yes of course.., the 20/30 year olds could really use a hand but they aren’t going to get it.

I wish my parents had travelled more, treated themselves to better cars, got the house fixed up more often, eaten out more etc. But they didn’t and as a result they have money for home help and nursing homes if needed.

I suppose it really just comes down to whether you are a person of integrity or not. If you’re not then dispose of your assets and live off your neighbours. If you are then don’t.

I like to be able to look myself in the eyes and know that I am at least trying to set an example for my children.

I understand resentment of those who live off the system but the solution is not to lower yourself to their level. And that’s exactly what is being proposed in this thread.

 

[Placeinthesun]

This thread - down with this sort of thing .
UK State Pension Bonanza Thread - the last raffle I was at was very interesting.

 

[bill_cash]

I suppose it really just comes down to whether you are a person of integrity or not. If you’re not then dispose of your assets and live off your neighbours. If you are then don’t.

I like to be able to look myself in the eyes and know that I am at least trying to set an example for my children.

I'd say your children would prefer you didn't set them such an expensive example!

 

[Marsupial]

And can we please stop with the “worked hard all their life”, “built the country” and “hard earned money” nonsense.
The generation that are now retired are also the ones who bankrupted the country during the Celtic Tiger and most of their wealth is due to property price inflation and pension fund inflation, neither of which was earned.

It's hard to blame them when they're being fed that line all of the time by both RTE and various political parties! And I can't wait to see how much more the bountiful Minister for Handouts is going to increase my weekly State pension by on budget day. And there's only a year to go before I get the free TV licence, free electricity units and a free GP card! Yee-haw, it's raining money!

The mother in law (sorry to drag her up again, but she's still going strong at age 94) has NEVER been wealthier than she has been for the past decade. She's got money to burn - and if we could only stop her from lighting candles, buying Mass cards and throwing €20 in the collection plate at Mass every Sunday, then she'd have even more! And, when she finally calls it a day, we'll be able to flog her house (purchased from the Council for a pittance, 40 years ago) for a huge sum, as it's located right beside Beaumont Hospital.

Meanwhile only one of her six grandchildren has his own house, and only one of the others has any prospect of ever owning one.

 

[Forumuser]

It's hard to blame them when they're being fed that line all of the time by both RTE and various political parties! And I can't wait to see how much more the bountiful Minister for Handouts is going to increase my weekly State pension by on budget day. And there's only a year to go before I get the free TV licence, free electricity units and a free GP card! Yee-haw, it's raining money!

You forgot to mention the free travel pass...for yourself and the wife....

 

[hero25]

From the many comments there seems to be 3 choices:
1. Change the system to be more equitable.... disperse the wealth from those who have to those who do not, in a fair manner, without double penalising those who work hard and save hard (sorry @Purple , some of them do and did work hard!).

2. Do nothing. Use one's own savings, and indeed own home, that were accumulated through hard work and frugality through life to pay for their care when elderly and die happy with a clear conscience, safe in the knowledge that one was never a burden on the State and additional brownie points for helping fund the elderly care of your room mate in the Nursing Home, who despite their lavish (or sedentary) lifestyle when younger, can't afford to pay anything for the same care. Straight to heaven for you

3. Legally exploit what some may see as "flaws" in the system to try and utilise one's savings to help their children or more likely, grandchildren ,buy a home, which, due to other flaws in the system, they can't afford, safe in the knowledge that the system will fund their own elderly care........ and spend eternity with Satan

Difficult choice!!

 

[Slim]

@hero25 Don't be a mug. Utilise every and any loophole you can. How do you think the rich stay rich. It's called wealth planning or strategy if you're paying for advice. There's no real need to deny offspring the benefit of accumulated wealth so as to 'be a good citizen'. Always obey the law but do not strain excessively to pay more than you need to.

 

[Purple]

From the many comments there seems to be 3 choices:
1. Change the system to be more equitable.... disperse the wealth from those who have to those who do not, in a fair manner, without double penalising those who work hard and save hard (sorry @Purple , some of them do and did work hard!).

Lots of people work hard. A fair system leaves those with more of their earned income and helps people who can’t earn a living. Wealth and income are two entirely different things.

2. Do nothing. Use one's own savings, and indeed own home, that were accumulated through hard work and frugality through life to pay for their care when elderly and die happy with a clear conscience, safe in the knowledge that one was never a burden on the State and additional brownie points for helping fund the elderly care of your room mate in the Nursing Home, who despite their lavish (or sedentary) lifestyle when younger, can't afford to pay anything for the same care. Straight to heaven for you

What about those (the majority) who accumulated their wealth through property price inflation and pension pot growth?

3. Legally exploit what some may see as "flaws" in the system to try and utilise one's savings to help their children or more likely, grandchildren ,buy a home, which, due to other flaws in the system, they can't afford, safe in the knowledge that the system will fund their own elderly care........ and spend eternity with Satan

Difficult choice!!

I’m an atheist so I don’t believe there’s any magic man in the sky looking at my every move and reading my every thought like a perverted stalker who will then judge me when I die. Morality and integrity are innate human characteristics. The worst thing religion does is steal that from us and claim it is a gift from some deity.

 

[Purple]

@hero25 Don't be a mug. Utilise every and any loophole you can. How do you think the rich stay rich. It's called wealth planning or strategy if you're paying for advice. There's no real need to deny offspring the benefit of accumulated wealth so as to 'be a good citizen'. Always obey the law but do not strain excessively to pay more than you need to.

The rich stay rich by thinking that they worked hard all their lives and earned all their wealth. They live in semi detached suburbia and don’t realise that they are the rich.
I think that as a society we should aim for equality of opportunity. That means lower taxes on earned income and higher taxes on unearned income as well as an education system and social supports that enabled people to acquire the skills to earn a good income. We currently have a welfare and taxation system that does the opposite.

 

[Purple]

I'd say your children would prefer you didn't set them such an expensive example!

What’s the line about it not being the journey or the destination but rather the person you become on the journey?
I know for certain that my job is to help them become tolerant, moral, well rounded and emotionally resilient people of strong character.
How well I succeed in that is for others to judge but I know that is far more valuable than money and will have a far greater influence on whether or not they live happy and fulfilled lives.