Is an air to air heat pump a good option for heating if underfloor heating isn't an option?

[MysticX]

Hi,

Ok the ground floor is solid concrete with no insulation.

Was researching underfloor heating with the stereotypical air to water heat pump and options for this floor scenario are:
(1) Lay a new floor with UFH on top of the old one.
Expensive and awkward having to raise everything affected by the new floor height.
Not sure I'd be okay with the reduced ceiling height.

(2) Dig up the old floor and install UFH when you put down a replacement floor.
Very expensive.

(3) "Milling" the existing floor for UFH retrofit.
Basically a waste of time and money where there's no insulation in the floor as the heat basically bleeds down to earth.


That got me thinking despite the popularity of air to water heat pumps in Ireland that perhaps an air to air heat pump (with a multi-split) would be better suited for my scenario (I know A2A doesn't do hot water).

Thoughts?

 

[_OkGo_]

(4) Use low temperature radiators with the air to water system

This is a common installation for smaller new builds or existing builds like yours.

The main thing to consider before switching to A2W or A2A is that your overall air tightness is good meaning you can actually use either system

 

[MysticX]

(4) Use low temperature radiators with the air to water system

This is a common installation for smaller new builds or existing builds like yours.

The main thing to consider before switching to A2W or A2A is that your overall air tightness is good meaning you can actually use either system

Thanks for the feedback.

If possible I'd like to remove rads to maximise floor space and in the absence of the UFH option then it seems like A2A is really the only option available.

 

[AJAM]

I have an air to water heat pump, with old rads and it works great. Cost less to run than gas.
I do have a good level of insulation in the walls and roof. But I did not need to have the house air tight, which I see a lot of commentators on AAM say that you do.

The actual important thing to do, is a proper heat loss calculation so that you can correctly size you heat pump and your radiators.

 

[MysticX]

I have an air to water heat pump, with old rads and it works great. Cost less to run than gas.
I do have a good level of insulation in the walls and roof. But I did not need to have the house air tight, which I see a lot of commentators on AAM say that you do.

The actual important thing to do, is a proper heat loss calculation so that you can correctly size you heat pump and your radiators.

Thanks for the feedback!
Yes I'll be focusing on the insulation initially.

It is quite an old property, I think on my budget I can slowly get it up to a BER of B something.

It's nice to know even if I can't get it airtight (BER A something?) that I still should be able to get effective use of a heat pump of some kind.
Still leaning towards air to air to free up some floor space with no rads at all.

 

[mir2001]

For what it’s worth, I got my 1974 house upgraded via a one stop shop this year. Ditched gas for heat pump and got house replumbed as part of that work. Also got external insulation added with new triple glazed windows. We couldn’t (practically) do underfloor heating so had to go with bigger rads downstairs, upstairs remained pretty much similar size to originals. Could have done with the extra wall space but frankly being warm is a bigger gain as our house was freezing. I agree with other poster that a well designed heating system is key. Our house had the advantage that its is small so this probably helped with running costs. We went from E2 to A2. System only went in at end of Feb so haven’t put it through a full winter in terms of costs. But March was pretty cold and the running costs were far less than I was paying for gas. Overall, the cost worked out well because of the grants. I found quoted prices varied greatly from one company to another too.

 

[MysticX]

For what it’s worth, I got my 1974 house upgraded via a one stop shop this year. Ditched gas for heat pump and got house replumbed as part of that work. Also got external insulation added with new triple glazed windows. We couldn’t (practically) do underfloor heating so had to go with bigger rads downstairs, upstairs remained pretty much similar size to originals. Could have done with the extra wall space but frankly being warm is a bigger gain as our house was freezing. I agree with other poster that a well designed heating system is key. Our house had the advantage that its is small so this probably helped with running costs. We went from E2 to A2. System only went in at end of Feb so haven’t put it through a full winter in terms of costs. But March was pretty cold and the running costs were far less than I was paying for gas. Overall, the cost worked out well because of the grants. I found quoted prices varied greatly from one company to another too.

Hi,

Thanks so much for providing your feedback!
Always good to see how others tackled it with similar circumstances.

Sounds like you got a deep retrofit via the one stop shop which usually involves moving out for a while?
I'm trying to avoid that if possible so leaning towards spreading out the upgrades and doing them one at a time.

 

[_OkGo_]

I regularly recommend Heat Geek to anyone looking to learn a bit more about heat pumps. They are a UK installer but have a lot of very informative and generally impartial advice on various heating systems.

The video below goes through most of the concerns with an A2A system and mainly focuses on the comfort of that heating method.

Air To Air Vs Air To Water Heat Pumps: What's Better?

Adam talks us through the differences between air to water and air to air #heatpumps, and tells us about his experience with both!Join 'Heat Geeks Heating He...

youtu.be

There is another follow on discussion with an A2A expert but I've yet to watch all of it.

Air To Air Heat Pumps: Are We Wrong? | A Chat With An Expert

Were we wrong about air to air heat pumps? In this video, Richard Clarke sets the record straight.Join 'Heat Geeks Heating Help for Homeowners" on Facebook f...

youtu.be

My general take on it is A2A can be just as efficient and possibly cheaper to install with the added benefit of being able to cool also... However, it seems like proper installation, control and operation is even more important to achieving a comfortable experience where noise and airflow are mimimised.

 

[mir2001]

Hi,

Thanks so much for providing your feedback!
Always good to see how others tackled it with similar circumstances.

Sounds like you got a deep retrofit via the one stop shop which usually involves moving out for a while?
I'm trying to avoid that if possible so leaning towards spreading out the upgrades and doing them one at a time.

Most of the work was external so didn’t really bother us, the heat pump installation part was trickier because of the replumbing. The company doing it were happy to work around us and said they had done this before. But we thought the cat might get in the way so we opted to move to a friends for three days. I talked to another lady on my estate who also got her house replumbed (for gas) and she said she managed fine without moving. I would talk to some companies and see what they say. The big reason I went with one stop shop was that you got a lot more grants. And the company I went with didn’t ask us to pay for the entire amount, only the cost after the grant. So that really helped with costs too. Hope that helps, I was very wary of all this before work began but am delighted I did now. I found the pre work technical assessment useful too.

 

[MysticX]

Most of the work was external so didn’t really bother us, the heat pump installation part was trickier because of the replumbing. The company doing it were happy to work around us and said they had done this before. But we thought the cat might get in the way so we opted to move to a friends for three days. I talked to another lady on my estate who also got her house replumbed (for gas) and she said she managed fine without moving. I would talk to some companies and see what they say. The big reason I went with one stop shop was that you got a lot more grants. And the company I went with didn’t ask us to pay for the entire amount, only the cost after the grant. So that really helped with costs too. Hope that helps, I was very wary of all this before work began but am delighted I did now. I found the pre work technical assessment useful too.

Thank you so much once again.

Would you mind pming me the one stop shop you used so I can check if I can get a quote for my location?

 

[Leo]

Would you mind pming me the one stop shop you used so I can check if I can get a quote for my location?

We prefer recommendations be made in public so that others might also benefit.

 

[MysticX]

We prefer recommendations be made in public so that others might also benefit.

Okay my bad.

I know other forums prefer users to avoid publicly naming specific companies when discussing businesses, even for recommendations (hence opted for caution here).

Let me try again in the preferred manner since I never got a PM with the info anyways.

The company doing it were happy to work around us and said they had done this before

Can you comment with the name of the specific company that you used please?