Irish staycation 2020/2021 Pros and Cons, will you be tempted?

Bronte said:

There is no way to stop this virus. No scientific proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine. A horrendous lockdown, unending. And worst of all our children living this hell. With total economic chaos to come.

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Bronte, such stark words... oh the misery of it all....

Whatever about this summer, Christmas will be contentious. As it is, the seasonal flu peaks in January because of Christmas. Travel, drink, grouping, indoors...

Bronte said:

Thank heavens we don't live in Ireland. We also went to France. It was pure bliss. They were so happy to see tourists and it was much less crowded than it's ever been. Restaurants bars, activities both water and land based, you name it we did it. Hardly ever had to wear a mask. Self catering, everything supplied. Could come and go as we pleased and everybody was happy. Most French staff couldn't give a fiddlers about masks.

We can't go to Ireland becuase we'd basically be locked down. No fun in that. Plus even if you're not locked down there is no way I'd put up with the kind of carry on in the restaurants and bars I'm hearing about on here. So I'll have to think now about another weeks holiday without flying as I'm not putting up with a mask at the airport for hours on end.

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I agree that France is fine. But masks in supermarkets are compulsory. No problem really.

Saavy99 said:

Bronte, such stark words... oh the misery of it all....

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People will change their tune when everybody is out of a job and there are no taxes to pay for anything. If schools can’t reopen why have teachers. If the hospitals cancel surgeries who counts those dead. Do people believe the Covid payment can continue when restaurants, bars, shops, hotels dying on their feet are returning no VAT.

As I said earlier, very dubious legal validity to what is going on at Dublin airport.

Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?

joer said:

Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?

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She's right, there is no real concrete evidence that a vaccine will be available anytime soon, there's alot of noise alright but don't hold your breath (no pun intended)
40 new cases here tonight, our numbers are going one way and that's upwards.
I'm dreading the coming winter.

Drakon said:

Whatever about this summer, Christmas will be contentious. As it is, the seasonal flu peaks in January because of Christmas. Travel, drink, grouping, indoors...

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I very much doubt pubs be opened at Christmas, in fact I can't see them opening at all for the rest of the year.

Bronte said:

No scientific proof that masks work, no cure, no likely vaccine.

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Are you Trump in disguise of did you just miss the mass coverage of the studies on the effectiveness of masks?

When you say no likely vaccine, what are you basing that on?

Bronte said:

Might as well stay at home so.

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Well we really enjoyed our stay in Ballynahinch Castle, we copied some others and took our dessert course in the lounge, one of the stupid things was that you couldn't close your meal bill and then decide to have another drink, so it kind of kept you drinking!

Leo said:

Are you Trump in disguise of did you just miss the mass coverage of the studies on the effectiveness of masks?

When you say no likely vaccine, what are you basing that on?

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I have zero interest in what Trump says about anything. The whole world is trying to find a vaccine but apparently because of the type of virus it is that's nearly impossible. In the same way there is no vaccine for a cold, or the way the vaccine for the flu has to be changed annually and even then isn't a full guarantee, nor close to it, that you won't get the flu.

Then there is the fact it takes so long to develop vaccines.

There there is the problem that it's already mutating.

Followed by rushing out vaccines is not a good idea.

Then there is the problem of testing. And distributing. And implementing. So anyone reading there's going to be a vaccine any time soon is wishful thinking.

There are millions of articles. Millions being spent but if you read enough it seems pretty clear to me a vaccine is near impossible.


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joer said:

Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel at all Bronte ?

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Yep. I've decided not to care anymore. If I get it and die so be it. Meanwhile I'm trying to create as normal a life as I can for me and my family. So I'm thinking of another holiday. We have had visitors fly in for the children, the children have or will fly elsewhere etc.

I'm sure the Duke was able to feel more normal again on his holiday. That's how we felt. It was wonderful. But we picked somewhere we knew we would be as free as could be. And self catering is the best way in my book. Though we did also go for a weekend break in a hotel. Picked a touristy spot where there was plenty buzz. Might do that again in a few weeks. Helps to distract from the monotony of it. And to avoid that we put a regime in place for school for the children (until the summer) to make life as normal as possible. With plenty of exercise for everybody according to their tastes. Netflix was a godsend. Weather brillant too. So we did lots of BBQ's or pic niq's etc. Did family quizes each Saturday with family in different parts of Ireland, that went down rather well.

The poster who went to Connemara had the right idea. Touristy, remote, things to do, self catering. Fun things to do. Getting away. All good.

Just returned from a four night’s stay in a Wicklow golf hotel. Really noticeable change in service levels due to Covid restrictions and at time’s there seemed to be inconsistencies between staff members.

Rooms are not cleaned daily as per the norm. A request can be made but you must vacate the room for a number of hours to allow cleaners in full PPE to enter. We didn’t bother and instead requested fresh towels daily.

Swimming pool required a booking and only limited numbers allowed at any one time for 60 mins. This actually worked quite well.

Breakfast, lunch and dinner time slots needed to be booked in advance. This isn’t too bad but hotel was operating with a reduced menu and reduced staff so service was quite slow for lunch and dinner. A buffet style breakfast was operational but rather than take your own portions there were servers at each station. No children were allowed to queue for food also.

Consumption of alcohol was no problem without ordering food in communal areas such as the lounges and lobbies however social distancing was in place and strictly adhered to.

Masks were not required to be worn in any areas and I didn’t see any guests voluntarily wearing masks. On the whole it was nice to get away for a few days but the price we paid felt a little steep in comparison to what we got. This was in part due to Covid restrictions and also because I feel the hotel charges 5 star prices but is not a 5 star property and needs a refurbishment.

Bronte said:

There are millions of articles. Millions being spent but if you read enough it seems pretty clear to me a vaccine is near impossible.

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Gosh, all those PhDs must feel silly developing the impossible, and we know big pharma just likes throwing billions into research of dead ends. None of the links provided go anywhere towards suggesting 'a vaccine is near impossible'.

Nothing to back up your 'No scientific proof that masks work' claim?

This thread should now be closed seeing as someone has mentioned the T word.

Leo said:

Gosh, all those PhDs must feel silly developing the impossible, and we know big pharma just likes throwing billions into research of dead ends. None of the links provided go anywhere towards suggesting 'a vaccine is near impossible'.

Nothing to back up your 'No scientific proof that masks work' claim?

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Nowhere did I say 'big pharma' just likes throwing billions into research dead ends. Pharma will take as much money as governments will send them by the bucketload. When do you think there will be a vaccine Leo?

We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key. What changed the 'science' on that.

I don't see how the magic money tree is going to keep all this going either. No end in sight to masses of people unemployed getting a government payment, out of drizzling amounts of taxation income. The people on PUP should be getting their redundancies any day now. Becuase it looks to me like the business that could just about keep going are going to go bust. Bars, then restaurants, then coffee shops when workers no longer work in cities, then taxis, then private bus operators, then airlines. If nobody is working in the cities all the small businessess that support them will no longer be needed. And if people have no jobs there will be less money. Sounds like a big recession to me.

Bronte said:

There there is the problem that it's already mutating.

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Is it?

Bronte said:

We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key. What changed the 'science' on that.

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We were not told they were pointless but that outside of clinical settings they were of little value. Also, infected people at home and those in contact with them were advised to use masks. But a number of things changed since then.

Science advances by evidence. It is not about looking into a book that says "masks" or "no masks" and sticking to that. As this was a new virus it took time for evidence to accumulate. Examples, that people who become infected can transmit the virus before they show any symptoms, that people may not show any symptoms at all (or so minimal that they do not realise it) and still be infectious to others - or spread the virus onto surfaces. Evidence that asymtomatic and pre-symtomatic spread were in fact major issues.
Also, there was evidence to show that countries and regions that successfully introduced masks were more successful at controlling the virus.

Also, back at the start masks of any sort were in extremely short supply. There were insufficient even for health workers. A lot of the hesitancy about recommending masks was to try to protect whatever supply there was for the most needy.

Another change? The strict "lockdown" has ended. People are mixing more. Masks are not so relevant when people are largely staying at home and not mixing. They have become a lot more relevant as many more people are out and about pursuing their daily business (and, yes, supporting economic life).

Another change? The role of "risk compensation" has been challenged and largely discredited as far as the virus is concerned. Specifically in regard to Covid, this postulated that because people wearing masks would believe themselves to be safe (protected with a shield) they would pay less attention to, or ignore, other important behaviours - so they would lower their guard as regards hand hygiene, social distancing, cough etiquette, etc. In fact, this has been shown not to be true. People who wear masks are seemingly the ones more likely to stick to the other guidelines.

Bronte said:

And if people have no jobs there will be less money. Sounds like a big recession to me.

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A recession is probably inevitable. But as the virus is increasing its spread again in several continental regions they are facing full or partial lockdown again. Ignoring the virus will not save us from recession. It will only make it worse.

Bronte said:

Nowhere did I say 'big pharma' just likes throwing billions into research dead ends. Pharma will take as much money as governments will send them by the bucketload. When do you think there will be a vaccine Leo?

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Governments account for a lot of the funding alright, but there are hundreds of billions of private dollars behind ongoing research. These companies do not throw billions at lost causes.

I don't think there will be a vaccine any time soon, and it will then take quite some time to scale production, but that's a very different prospect to saying it's near impossible.

Bronte said:

We were told by the scientists/experts/media/government for months that masks were pointless. That handwashing was key. What changed the 'science' on that.

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They didn't exactly say they were pointless, they said indications at the time were that the level or prevalence didn't justify the widespread wearing of masks in the face of global shortages. As more and more evidence became available that contradicted their understanding, those same scientists were forced to admit that they were wrong. That admission was the nexus for the change in advice globally.

Early Riser said:

A recession is probably inevitable. But as the virus is increasing its spread again in several continental regions they are facing full or partial lockdown again. Ignoring the virus will not save us from recession. It will only make it worse.

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This is not the first time I have seen posters refer to a future recession.

It has started already.

It started in March 2020.

It is a very sharp drop in output/income.

We are in it now.

The very sharp drop during Q2 might continue into Q3.

There may be six months of very sharp falls.

The recession will be short, and very sharp.

The recovery will be slow.

It may have started already, but in technical terms we won’t know ‘til October at the earliest. Two consecutive quarterly contraction is a “recession”.
The fact that there’s been no significant drop in PAYE income tax to the exchequer, because most that have lost their jobs or been furloughed were not PAYE tax payers, means that it may not have started as early as we thought.