Irish cases involving Roma children

[Deiseblue]

I note from the Irish Times report that Emily Logan , the Children's Ombudsman concluded in her report that the Guards in question honestly believed they were acting in the best interests of the child.

Perhaps given this it would appear that any action against these guards would be unfair ?

It should be noted that the "hysterical " & " over zealous " quotes came not in the judgement but were attributed to the solicitor for the parents of the child.

Apart from the policing arm of the state I do not think that any other social workers or public servants were named in the case for the parents of the child

 

[cremeegg]

It should be noted that the "hysterical " & " over zealous " quotes came not in the judgement but were attributed to the solicitor for the parents of the child.

Their barrister I think, but yes it came from the parents representatives. However they were hardly awarded €60,000 as a result of levelheaded and proportionate actions of Gardai.

I note from the Irish Times report that Emily Logan , the Children's Ombudsman concluded in her report that the Guards in question honestly believed they were acting in the best interests of the child.

I don't think many people ever thought otherwise. But whatever their honest beliefs, they forcibly removed a child away from its family for no good reason. Which to my mind at least is a very bad thing.

I have no doubt that in all the many manifestations of state power oppressing people in Ireland we have seen over the years, that the people responsible thought they were acting in the best interests of those concerned. That is absolutely no excuse for doing a very bad job.

 

[DB74]

I note from the Irish Times report that Emily Logan , the Children's Ombudsman concluded in her report that the Guards in question honestly believed they were acting in the best interests of the child.

Perhaps given this it would appear that any action against these guards would be unfair ?

It should be noted that the "hysterical " & " over zealous " quotes came not in the judgement but were attributed to the solicitor for the parents of the child.

Apart from the policing arm of the state I do not think that any other social workers or public servants were named in the case for the parents of the child

The article also refers to a few other statements made by the Ombudsman:

"The Ombudsman’s report on the matter found the Garda actions involved “ethnic profiling” as defined by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance.

The boy was removed under Section 12 of the 1991 Act, which allows for a child’s removal without a prior court order where it is considered there is an immediate and serious risk to a child’s health and welfare. He was placed in the custody of the HSE and later returned to his parents. DNA tests established he was their child.

In her report of July 2014, then Children’s Ombudsman Emily Logan concluded the readiness to believe the boy, referred to as Child A, might have been abducted exceeded the evidence available and was tied inextricably to the fact his family was Roma.

Ms Logan said she recognised the gardaí in question honestly believed they were acting in the best interests both of the boy and of another blonde Roma girl also removed from her family in Tallaght around the same time.

The tip-offs from the public that triggered the Garda investigations and actions were based on an erroneous view of the case of “Maria” in Europe, then making international headlines. The Garda actions were also based on an explicitly prejudiced view of the Roma community, the Ombudsman said.

In the boy’s case, whatever doubts the gardaí had should have been decisively put to rest when his father told them the child had albinism, she added."

 

[Deiseblue]

I totally agree that the entire matter was an unqualified debacle .

However given the fact that the guards in question took the wrong course of action for the right reasons , the lack of training in the area of child protection & the " vexed " role of the gardai under the child protection act resulted in Emily Logan issuing a number of recommendations to ensure that such a debacle would never happen again - none of these recommendations posited the view that disciplinary actions should be taken against any party .

And to extrapolate blame to social workers or indeed any other public servant in this matter is mischievous.

 

[Firefly]

I note from the Irish Times report that Emily Logan , the Children's Ombudsman concluded in her report that the Guards in question honestly believed they were acting in the best interests of the child.

This is the most important point for me. OK, the guards got it wrong, but better they get it wrong the odd time than be afraid to act the way the did the next time they are faced with removing a child from a potentially very bad situation.

In cases like this where the state, or any organisation for that matter is found to be at fault, then there is always going to be solicitors getting compensation for their clients. However, it shouldn't stop the state from putting the interests of the child first and foremost. Often in cases like this time can be of the essence. Had the family in question actually abducted the child and knew about the plans to retrieve the child then God knows what might have happened.

Obviously, this was traumatic for the parents and family involved, but better that the state does it's best for the safety of children.

 

[Leper]

Firefly said "OK, the guards got it wrong, but better they get it wrong the odd time than be afraid to act the way the did the next time they are faced with removing a child from a potentially very bad situation."

The Gardaí got it wrong, full stop and must be held responsible for their actions. They had no right to believe conclusion-jumpers who were acting on mere hearsay. Furthermore, they have no right to take anybody else's child from any family unless they are acting on hard, cold facts.

 

[DB74]

This is the most important point for me. OK, the guards got it wrong, but better they get it wrong the odd time than be afraid to act the way the did the next time they are faced with removing a child from a potentially very bad situation.

In cases like this where the state, or any organisation for that matter is found to be at fault, then there is always going to be solicitors getting compensation for their clients. However, it shouldn't stop the state from putting the interests of the child first and foremost. Often in cases like this time can be of the essence. Had the family in question actually abducted the child and knew about the plans to retrieve the child then God knows what might have happened.

Obviously, this was traumatic for the parents and family involved, but better that the state does it's best for the safety of children.

Sorry but that's not good enough and I think that's very easy to say when it's someone else that it happens to. I don't know if you have children or not but if you're telling me that you be happy if the Gardai came to your house and took one of your children away because some busybody had reported that he or she "may" not be yours because they looked differently to you then I think you are in a very very small minority

This was a knee-jerk reaction to an once-off Italian case which resulted in a racially-profiled attack on an innocent family.

We only have to look across the Ocean to see plenty of examples where the police get it wrong sometimes but I don't see too many people claiming it's for the greater good