Irish cases involving Roma children

cremeegg said:
That is ridiculous!

Even I don't think that the state regularly takes children away from their parents as a precautionary measure.

Tell me that you are pulling my leg
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If course they do. Why don't you talk to a social worker to see the reality facing front line staff in this country dealing with child protection.
 
Sunny said:
If course they do. Why don't you talk to a social worker to see the reality facing front line staff in this country dealing with child protection.
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Because if I thought they were involved in taking children away from their parents "as a precautionary measure" I might beat them to death with my bare hands. And I would expect a medal!

No country in the civilised world jails people as a "precautionary measure" even people suspected of intending to carry out serious crime. Much less children
 
Jail? I think you've lost it there!

You might be surprised to read so that 839 children were taken into care during 2011.
 
If a social worker, backed by Gardai comes into your home and takes you away against your will and confines you in a care home or other institution, thats jail.

Even if you are a child.

Can I pose another question, how does your mindset differ from that of the general public who acquiesced with young women being confined in Magdalen homes in the 1950s.

I am not having a go at you here. I genuinely think that we are complacent about the way the state can take children away from their home in Ireland today.

To my mind the Roma cases illustrated this clearly.

If these cases don't make us re-examine the way we do things, then I think that state intervention in families will increase.

Reasons for state intervention that appear ridiculous now may look reasonable in future. Just as reasons that were reasonable in the 1950s look ridiculous now.

Do you take children from parents who are smokers. Obviously growing up in a smoke filled environment is not in a child's best interests.

At what point between where we are now and taking children away from smokers is the rise in state intervention halted.

If the Roma case did not give us pause, what will.
 
cremeegg said:
If a social worker, backed by Gardai comes into your home and takes you away against your will and confines you in a care home or other institution, thats jail.
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No, it isn't anything like jail.

cremeegg said:
Can I pose another question, how does your mindset differ from that of the general public who acquiesced with young women being confined in Magdalen homes in the 1950s.
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If that was aimed at me, what exactly do you think my mindset is?

cremeegg said:
I am not having a go at you here. I genuinely think that we are complacent about the way the state can take children away from their home in Ireland today.
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Are you aware of the Child Care Law Reporting Project and the work they do? If you've read any of the recent case histories, I think you'll see it's quite difficult to have a care order granted, even in cases where parents have admitted causing very serious injury to infants.
 
Leo said:
No, it isn't anything like jail.
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I gave two specific reasons why it is like jail. You produce no argument to support your opinion

Leo said:
If that was aimed at me, what exactly do you think my mindset is?
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Complacent




Are you aware of the recent case where tow children were taken away from their parents because they had the wrong colour hair. It was widely covered in the press at the time. There is even a thread on AAM about the matter
 
cremeegg said:
There is even a thread on AAM about the matter
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I'm pretty sure this IS the thread...
cremeegg said:
Are you aware of the recent case where tow children were taken away from their parents because they had the wrong colour hair.
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You seem very worked up about this but you can't know much about it if you think the cases were solely due to hair colour.

AAM posters are generally reasonable people but no-one seems even close to agreeing with your quite extreme views on this. The authorities had to make a judgement call. I would prefer that 20 children were removed as a precautionary measure for a couple of nights in a safe environment - rather than leave one child in an unsafe environment for fear of accusations of meddling. If their parents react in a sensible way when they return home, I'm sure the children will have forgotten all about it in a few months.
 
its a truly terrible thing to happen any family and not something you would ever forget or forgive, but what I found the most disturbing thing about it all was that it was driven purely by racial hatred...
 
blueband said:
its a truly terrible thing to happen any family and not something you would ever forget or forgive, but what I found the most disturbing thing about it all was that it was driven purely by racial hatred...
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in what way was 'racial hatred' the driving force and how are you so certain of this?
 
ok, so your saying it was 'racial hatred' on an industrial scale....gardai, social workers, judges, media also perhaps?
 
Delboy said:
ok, so your saying it was 'racial hatred' on an industrial scale....gardai, social workers, judges, media also perhaps?
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i don't remember saying it was on an industrial scale... your words not mine!....but this incident was racially motivated.
 
blueband said:
racial hatred...
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blueband said:
racially motivated.
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You're stepping down from racial hatred to racially motivated but you need to make one further step down the scale. The case undoubtedly happened partially due to race but that doesn't mean it was racial hatred or motivated by race. Ireland is new to the immigration experience and guards and social workers can't know every cultural nuance of every different race/culture that steps foot on the island - nor should they be expected to.
 
look..this family was singled out for special treatment because they were 'roma' as I said there is no way an irish family would have been subjected to such appalling treatment, so if you can not see it was race motivated you must be blind.
 
Although this case has slipped from the news. The issue of the state taking children from their families isn't just an Irish one. I wonder how far we are from the state taking children on an organised basis.

Before you write me off as an extremist read the below reports. Neither from newspapers known for their extremism.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/21/john-pilger-indigenous-australian-families

Unfortunately I cannot find the link to an Irish Times article about the recording of Traveller children's details on the Pulse system. It was within the last 2 weeks.
 
The Ombudsman Emily Logan has just published her report into this matter.

According to RTE she says " The readiness to believe the child may have been abducted exceeded the evidence available to the gardai"

Enda has apologised in the Dail and Frances Fitzgerald has met with and apologised to the families.

Thats all right then.

But if the gardai or social workers get it into their heads to take away your children tomorrow there is nothing to stop them!!
 
Perhaps the point is that after an episode of "hysterical" and "over zealous" policing which cost the state €60,000 plus and the Roma family involved who knows what trauma, it is very unlikely that any guard, social worker or other public servant responsible will be held to account.
 

Couldn't have put it better myself
 
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