Irish Army - benefits to Irish public

Re: Pittance

[broken link removed]. Where are you getting the VERY well paid idea from? They didn't cover themselves in glory over the deafness scandal for sure but their basic rates don't look too good to me.
 
Re: Pittance

I have quite a high opinion of the Irish army but i heard their spokesman the other day say that their claims of bullying were falling on dear ears....I thought that was a bad choice of words.
 
Deaf ears

"I have quite a high opinion of the Irish army but i heard their spokesman the other day say that their claims of bullying were falling on dear ears"

That's a cracker !!

Boom !! Boom !!

But maybe that's a bad choice of words too !!
 
Army

the gardai do fulfill this role I havent heard of the army ever being involved in a drugs operation, the gardai deal with the terrorists also , the army should be scaled down
 
Observer

If we depended on legal proof in these columns, they would be empty.
Its reasonable to base a judgement on an accummulation of anecdotes and observations.
I have no proof that the Health Service is very badly managed but probably a majority would agree.
What should we base our views on?...Civil Service/Government press releases?
As for the army....Will we really only defend our independence against an invader if we think we`ll win?
No! We`ll will resist with all the strength we can muster...for how long?...say 800 years!
An army of 8500 for a population of 4m??...is that the value we put on our liberty?
 
Re: Ivan

.....or helping out with flooding disasters as happened last week in Clonmel.

But wait for it - a 'platoon' of 30 army personnel were sent to help out backed up with 'four wheel drive' vehicles. Hardly a 'platoon' where several definitions state it is: ' a component element of a company consisting of three squads; commanded by a lieutenant or ' An infantry platoon consists of about 40 personnel in three sections..'

What a show of assistance by the army or is that all the garda / civil defense asked for.

Other reports stated that the civil defense were called out to assist. Why weren't the army called out - they are fully equiped and trained.

I appreciate what the civil defense do but surely we (the taxpayers for this post) should be insisting that the army (whose wages we pay) should be utilised more.

So approx. 800 army personnel are on peackeeping duty abroad and another 30 visited Clonmel last week, what are the other 7000 doing?

N.
 
Re: Ivan

...what are the other 7000 doing?

Probably waiting for Luxembourg or San Marino to invade !

:rollin

Time we scaled our army back heavily, I'd say.
 
Re: Switzerland.

Switzerland is a neutral country that has always taken their neutrality very seriously.

For example, they currently have -
- 700+ Main Battle Tanks
- 70+ Fighter jets (F5's, F-18's, etc)
- 50+ Alouette III helicopter (plus many other helis)

This is just a small sample of their equipment.

Compare this to Ireland -
- 14 Small Tanks
- 8 Pilatus PC-9 turboprop aircraft (propellor aircraft: can be armed with missiles and machine guns as required. Similar to a modern day Spitfire)
- 10 Helicopters.

(N.B. The Air Corps currently has c.35 aircraft in total)

Again a small sample of some of our equipment, but a good comparison with Switzerland.

.......And our Naval Service has the LARGEST Sea area in the E.U to patrol with only EIGHT vessels - which is like asking the Gardai to patrol ALL of Ireland with ONE patrol car !!!


However, I must add that our Defence Forces do a great job with the limited equipment they are provided with.

Don't forget, they can only work with what they are given by the government - and the govt usually buys the wrong equipment at that !!
 
Swiss 'navy'

smart This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language.
The Swiss DO have a 'navy' actually - to patrol their lakes.
 
The Irish Defence Force's role's

The Irish Defence Forces provide much needed service's to:
A) The people of Ireland
B) The state
C) The people of foreign countries.

The Air-Corp provide airbourne eyes in fishery protection and anti-drug operations, and assist in pinpointing positions of ships in distress.

The Naval Service also take part in fishery protection and anti-drug operations. They also provide protection from seabourne threats and provide assistance to any vessels in distress in Irish waters.

The Permanent Defence Force regularly take part in training operations, both at home and with foreign armed force's. They protect the Irish state from armed aggressors by patrolling the border and simply by being there. They also provide aid to the civil power, by assisting the emergency services during a flood for example, and providing security in cash escorts.

No we don't have thousands of troops oversea's we always have no more then 800.

Oversea's missions are the bread and butter of the Defence Force's and Irish troops are internationally known to be excellent peacekeepers.

If you want information on the Irish Defence Force's either contact their public relations office, or subscribe to their monthly magazine.
 
Re: The Irish Defence Force's role's

850 overseas + another 850 training and preparing to go overseas + the previous 850, many on leave with their families = approx 2,250 involved in UN duty. Personnel on standby in case the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language hit’s the fan overseas and reinforcements are needed asap.
Overseas in min 6 months and can be extended to 7 months. Some missions are a year overseas.

Someone asked what the army did during the year, here are some of the many tasks carried out, taken from a report in 2003

12% of overall strength either entering or exiting the PDF in a year.

618 recruited in a 2003 who have to be trained. Takes the best part of a year to train a soldier to the basic standard.

2,669 on training and career courses, these can vary from weeks to six months.

Now add in the instructors etc to the above totals.

Also we train foreign troops how to be peacekeepers at the UN school in the Curragh.

Members serve with NGO’s in Africa and south and central America

Numbers in major military field exercises in 2003 = 2,895

Non Border operations
Security of key installations, (Government buildings, Portlaoise prison and hospital, central bank, explosive factory at enfield and Dublin docklands during the loading and unloading of munitions etc.) = 2,140 parties (parties could be anything up to 30 strong)

Patrols of other installations, (RTE, CIE, fuel storage, prisons, courts, airports, docklands etc ) = 1,156 patrols

Bomb squad (EOD) = 79 call outs then add to this the anthrax scares etc

As for the border remember the Real IRA and Continuity IRA are still around and do you want an Omagh style bombing here in the south? Hence troops needed to watch the border area. And Mr Bin Laden is still alive and kicking, recent TV reports suggest that extremists are here recruiting and fundraising in Ireland. If those boys decide to kick off we will all be screaming for the army to save our asses.

Ranger Wing etc to deal with a hostage rescue. Could you picture the Guards trying to do that. Rangers need a large pool of potential recruits (ie soldiers) and the number that pass each selection is about 5 people if there very lucky.

Details of military assistance to Civil Authorities in 2003 (2002 remember the foot and mouth)

January to March
Ambulance Strike An emergency ambulance service was provided to Midlands Health Board
Cover providing cover to Longford, Tullamore, Mullingar, Birr and Portalington regions.

January to February
Fire Strike Cover Provision of Defence Forces fire tenders and crews in the Lifford and Bridgend areas of Co. Donegal during UK fire strikes.

January
Flats Lift Dispute Provision of technical services providing continuous lift repairs & maintenance in the Ballymun Flat Complex – Dublin.

January
Flood Relief Flood water engineering and relief assistance to Letterkenny General Hospital.

April
Forest/Gorse Fires Assistance in fighting forest/gorse fires in Galway and Co. Wicklow areas.

May to July Ambulance Strike Cover Provision on emergency ambulance service to South East Health Board to cover strike.

October to November
Landslide Provision of assistance to Galway Co. Council with regard to bog slide at Derrybrin, Gort, Co. Galway.

If the bin collectors, postmen, ambulance, fire, etc. etc. go on strike who do you call on = the army

Also remember the blue flue when the Garda went sick who stepped in = army

At the rate Limerick is going we will need troops there to keep the peace.

Not forgetting the bank escorts & Prisoner escorts = 24,951 man days

Explosives for mining construction usually requires military personnel, to make sure someone does not blow themselves or half the countryside up in 2002 = 1,545 man days

Guarding of barracks usually is shifts lasting 24 hours

Not forgetting Shannon 2003, Mayday and EU enlargement, and that muppet Bush.

Participation in major ceremonial events = 5,981 personnel

Number of military band engagements in 2003 = 535 (A lot if these were military but many of these were free public recitals, festivals and school concerts)

And on top of all that soldiers get annual holidays like everyone else.

The price waterhouse report recommended some changes etc and 2,500 jobs went along with at least six barracks. About 100 civil servants went as well. An entire layer of red tape and pen pushing was cut out leading to a major increase in efficiency.

Name another government organ that could do with less pen pushing? Health anyone?

Last time I checked the 40 hour week does not apply. Also on overseas or on exercises you are never really off duty. When you look at the pay rates do not divide by 40 hours a week try about 72.

If a soldier fails the drugs test = lose job

If a soldier fails the fitness test, and does not pass in set time frame = lose job

If a soldier is medically unfit for an extended period = lose job

A soldier no longer has a job for life but can be out after 12 years or less.

In fact the army is considered a tad over stretched at the moment so there will be an extra few thousand integrated reservists to help with the day to day items at weekends and short periods overseas and you can only go overseas for 6 months so many times before the spouse/partner and children start to kick up! LOL :)

Remember when you need us or the government calls we will be there and do our very best to help and defend up.

PS A lot of the army's training and infantry equipment is designed with Guerrilla fighting in mind. Numbers are important but the real difference in battle is training and equipment.
 
The Irish Defence Force's role's

What a deafening silence! Amazing what happens when someone quotes the facts!
 
Re: The Irish Defence Force's roles

Still sounds like a souped up police force.

And Mr Bin Laden is still alive and kicking, recent TV reports suggest that extremists are here recruiting and fundraising in Ireland. If those boys decide to kick off we will all be screaming for the army to save our asses.

The American military were so effective in preventing 9/11. I feel so safe... chortle.
 
Re: The Irish Defense Force's role's

irl01 - your post is exactly what I have sought for ages and wasn't aware of most of it.

(Just goes to show that the army could improve on the old PR.)

Anyway - where does one get a hold of the report you have qouted from?

Marie - the silence present in terms of those very facts about what the army do was more deafening

Thx
 
Re: The Irish Defense Force's role's

Well irl01, you have silenced the critics. Me included!
 
The Irish Defense Force's role's

NBermo - purple has made the point I intended......that the detailed account of army work has silenced critics. Sometimes I'm not sufficiently articulate! :\
 
Re: The Irish Defense Force's role's

NBermo Some of the details are examples taken from the annual reports. I have copies of them but cannot remember where exactly I got them from. :-(
They receive media coverage when published and the Defence Forces hold press conferences and press briefing.
 
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