Ireland - Its sinking ..

mh

You may be Max hopper but you're not as funny or as clever as you think you are.

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I think he's slightly both. Better than vanilla all the time anyway.

Selfish... Jeeze I hope not..

wow! I liked your post until you said people like me are selfish!

Anyway don't forget we came back and I came back with some great experience in my field to give back to Ireland. Experience I defineltly wouldnt have got in Ireland at the time I left Uni.

Im all for social change and that was my point in a previous post.

Anyway I hope Im not being selfish to want the best for my children ...

Elk

No I don't just shrug. I still do as much as I can within the current boundaries because I think the hardware is ok, it's just the operating system that needs sorting. But in fairness, you do have a point; lots of Irish people can't be bothered to anything to make a change. And it's very frustrating to hear people whinge when they won't even make a few phonecalls to make their opinion known.

You won't motivate the masses by calling them names or being condescending though, no matter how apathetic you believe them to be. What exactly do you want in Ireland Max? And what do you actually do to try and get it?

Rebecca

I don't have kids and maybe I would do the same Elk, although I hope not. And I welcome people coming back and the influx of new people; the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I believe everyone has something valuable to contribute to society (not just the economy).

I think the "best" thing I could do for my kids would be to show them that they are not the most important thing in the world and that they have a responsiblity to everyone else (not just family)too by showing them how to participate in the community they live in and how to try to change things if they are not as good as they could be - not just up-sticks and move to the next bit of pasture. Otherwise, won't you end up constantly chasing the greener grass?

Rebecca

I haven't read this whole thread - but has anyone mentioned that Sweden is the free-est country in the world according to the UN?

I don't mean to put down Ireland either - but isn't Ireland all about :
sleep-commute-work-commute-sleep
broken by :
drink-hangover-tv

for a couple of days in every 5?

"I don't mean to put down Ireland either - but isn't Ireland all about :
sleep-commute-work-commute-sleep
broken by :
drink-hangover-tv

for a couple of days in every 5? "

If that's what you do with your life, yes.

Unfortunately it is right now. Working 9-9. Driving 2 hours every day. Maybe I should just go on the dole! Are many people doing more than sleep-commute-work-commute-sleep?

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Sweden is the free-est country in the world

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It's also one of the most socialist.

If Sweden left the European Union and joined the United States we would be the poorest state of America.

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[broken link removed]

live to work...

I appreciate it's different for each individual, but my daily grind involves:

Up 6.20am - 40min drive to start work at 7.30am - finish work 7.30pm - home 8.15pm - in the nest by 12am

Come the weekend, not fit for much in the way of binding the social fabric that holds us together as a nation...

I am by no means the longest-working or longest-commuting in the office either.

Why are we so hopeless at the whole 'work-to-live' balance?

S.

This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language!

Stakhanov: This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language man my heart goes out to you! I'm not based in Dublin and I can't imagine how I would feel if I had to commute like you on top of the issues I have already mentioned... I wonder if the staunch defenders of Eire have to do such a commute!

Elk

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Elk: You might want to edit the 'obscenities' out of your post before the Mad Moderator pops by and deletes the entire post, thread, and probably you too if he could.

With the majority promoting 'family' as the best feature of Ireland, I am beginning to wonder about the number of xenophobes on the island. And as for 'friends', just how did you meet them? School? Church? Clubs? Parochial environments, to be sure. And in the aforementioned venues, are not the vast majority same-minded? Well, there you are. You have no idea what makes a destination desirable if you have never left home.

Attempt an integration in a foreign country (and for extra measure, a different language.) To be confronted with the 'Johnnie Foreigner' attitudes the 'tru and tru' Irish display is wearying. Hell, they exhibit the same herd mentality when on holiday. I never meet 2 Swiss together but the Irish cannot consider accomodation in Oz with other nationals. You'll always find 3 or more together while on the road.

40 shades of gangrene.

I don't mean to be dismissive, but unless you view your career as the most important thing in your life, then spending so much of your time in the work-commute cycle is crazy - take some control back. It's a choice; either move your home or move your job. I'd sooner work in McDonalds on less money and have more time, personally. And while I haven't gone as far as that, I did move out of a job that I felt was taking over my life. The sacrifice was this job is less challenging and is a little further away but it's 9-to-5 with an hour for lunch and a 30 minute each way drive (proper driving, not the stuck in traffic carry-on). I refuse to mortgage out the prime years of my life to work 12 hours days in the hope I might get a promotion depending on my ability to play the game or for a company who'd take off to Bangalore-du-jour at the first sign of decent wages.

Max, too bad you didn't answer my direct questions. I was genuinely looking forward to what you had to say. I hear what you're saying about making friends, but I think that's a choice too - even in the sticks there are opportunities to meet different people from different countries, especially from countries gap-year students might not necessarily bother drinking their way through. There's no excuse for being blinkered to other countries these day, regardless of whether you are lucky enough to live in another country at some stage (you can't live in them all anyway).

Rebecca

Re: This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language!

"I'm not based in Dublin and I can't imagine how I would feel if I had to commute like you on top of the issues I have already mentioned... I wonder if the staunch defenders of Eire have to do such a commute!"

I have a 40 minute commute in the morning and about an hour in the evening.

"With the majority promoting 'family' as the best feature of Ireland, I am beginning to wonder about the number of xenophobes on the island. And as for 'friends', just how did you meet them? School? Church? Clubs? Parochial environments, to be sure. And in the aforementioned venues, are not the vast majority same-minded? Well, there you are. You have no idea what makes a destination desirable if you have never left home.

Attempt an integration in a foreign country (and for extra measure, a different language.) To be confronted with the 'Johnnie Foreigner' attitudes the 'tru and tru' Irish display is wearying. Hell, they exhibit the same herd mentality when on holiday. I never meet 2 Swiss together but the Irish cannot consider accomodation in Oz with other nationals. You'll always find 3 or more together while on the road.

40 shades of gangrene. "

This is beginning to get pathethic because anybody who defends living here is getting slagged off for doing so.

Are you Irish max?

That chip just keeps getting bigger and bigger doesn't it.

By all accounts max anybody who likes living here should feel ashamed for doing so by your bitter, twisted and unhappy logic.

What started off as a reasonable debate has turned completely farcical. I keep asking myself the same question, over and over and over. Why don't you go live somewhere else where your life isn't so crap?

Or is it just that you don't enjoy your life and it's easy to blame your surroundings because it makes you feel better instead of taking stock of things and making the right decision for you.

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By all accounts max anybody who likes living here should feel ashamed for doing so by your bitter, twisted and unhappy logic.

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Where are these accounts Mr. Pigster? You have an egregious tendency to make falacious arguments based on your own suspect interpretations of what people say.

PS: What on earth does this mean?

Or is it just that you don't enjoy your life and it's easy to blame your surroundings because it makes you feel better instead of taking stock of things and making the right decision for you.

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Re: .

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By all accounts max anybody who likes living here should feel ashamed for doing so by your bitter, twisted and unhappy logic.
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Where are these accounts Mr. Pigster? You have an egregious tendency to make falacious arguments based on your own suspect interpretations of what people say.

Max said:

lethargy


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It's why the Irish remain in Ireland. Those that were led or fled to North America or Oz now live in co-operative societies.

And...
And if by some perverse reason some Irish punters have a go at creating wealth and by extention, employment, the Irish psyche drives us to wish them ill. Sick and twisted is how I would describe that behaviour. And immature.

And
And the reason is that there are no rational reasons to live here. The best and brightest have moved on

And here
The over-inflated sense of self that is 'Irishness' dosen't wash in the world. The rest of the EU laughs at us. Even smallest the newest entrants, who by the way lost more lives and paid dearly than Ireland for their freedom, guffaw over the self-importance on display here.


PS: What on earth does this mean?

Quote:
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Or is it just that you don't enjoy your life and it's easy to blame your surroundings because it makes you feel better instead of taking stock of things and making the right decision for you.
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It means exactly what it says. Why does he live in Ireland if he thinks it's so crap?

acculturating

I spent 12 years in London, 2 in Germany. I have to say that returning to Ireland in 1991 at age c 35 was difficult. It took at least 2 years to settle in.

1. The social life just wasn't as fluid as it had been in my early 20s and it took a long time to make good friends. Very easy to meet people who'd say 'we must keep in touch' and you'd never hear from them again.

2. Took me a long time to get used to Irish culture. I didn't realise that when I told an Irish person I was in a hurry because I had an appointment in 2 minutes, they were insulted cos I didn't stop to chat.

3 More cultural codes: when a person says on the phone in Ireland, "I must let you go now", it means that THEY want to get off the phone. Sayiing "Oh no, I've plenty of time" just upsets them.

4 The Irish habit of beating around the bush and not being straightforward used to INFURIATE me. Thank heavens I worked with a few Americans so we could moan together about this! Now I accept it.

The point is , I had to learn the opposites when I went ot live abroad after Uni. Then relearn on my return. My first year here was miserable. I'd got out of the pub habit entirely and it bored me to tears. It takes time. I'm sure there's stuff on this on the internet - try culture shock or acculturation.

I'm hard pressed to say why I stay here. Family is one reason. And I suppose I've got used to it. Where else would I prefer? Everywhere has its drawbacks. If I could only bring the ideal aspects of a number of place together in one geographical location!

I also contribute in my subversive way - in personal and political senses - to change. Otherwise how can change happen?

I figure we never had the facilities that England had to cut back on, so when we cut back, the effects were much more "cutting". Alas we were never a colonial power!

Re: Eireann go brea

Elk, Elk Elk ...I seems like just last evening we were enjoying a friendly banter about radio and the like. Now look what have you started my friend, five pages of raw emotion...ah isn’t that what being Irish is all about

I too have lived abroad and returned and left...etc.
Apparently you live in or Around Galway not a bad start. I must admit I haven't read the entire thread (life's just too short) it would seem the debate is very general. Specifically (see below) I love Ireland for certain reasons. Of course the place infuriates me at the same time but that’s just it. I couldn't give a flying fig about any other place I have ever lived. Like a mad gunman goes crazy in NYC, I couldn't care less even if it were a mile away. However I take events in Ireland to heart. I worry about the general effect of inflation. I pray that the kinda peace in the North will last. In effect I feel I belong. If you feel you belong you may well drive yourself insane but it’s a good reason to consider staying.

What I like about Ireland:
Sailing
Mountains
Walking on the beach no matter the weather
The weather ain't too bad
Pubs (now the smoke free variety)
Debate with strangers without fear of being lynched
That rather quirky Irish humour
My pathetic attempt at the Irish language
Diddildee iddildee music
The summer festivals
The wren on St Stephen’s day
Seeing Ireland growing up over the last ten years
GAA (mentioned earlier in jest but it's great)
Failrly low tax
Affordable health insurance Itry USA for size)

Re: acculturating

This is an interesting one alright. I hope the thread doesn't descend. Keep one thing in mind: reply to the post not the poster. Let's not let it get personal.

Elk, there's no doubt that your original post touched a nerve amongst many many people. Some people mightn't have the luxury of being able to up sticks and move country. Some people might have the luxury but not the will or the inclination. That's fair enough. They don't have to fight their corner.

I think you asked a question which could have been taken up in a couple of ways (1) why should I (Elk) stay, (2) justify why you don't live in another country.

The first question can only be answered by yourself and nobody else. Everyone has their reasons for staying here. Maybe they've got kids, etc. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think what might have hit the nerve is the second interpretation where you might be asking people about why they live in Ireland and not another country.

People have their reasons and, in a sense, maybe those reasons shouldn't be challenged inasmuch as there may be personal reasons (i.e. family - as Oz (and no doubt somebody else before him/her) put it - the ties that bind).

Beyond personal circumstances and personal advantages (e.g. piggy being able to see the Dublin mountains from his/her house) there are the more global issues which affect us all. They're the reasons which you raise in your initial post.

You're lucky enough to have lived in a country outside Ireland. Most of us have probably holidayed abroad for 2 or 3 weeks of the year and, each time, glad to come back to proper bread, milk and Guinness. There's that and the "better the devil you know" people.

Ask yourself about what life's about. If, for you, it's about bringing up a family then ask yourself about the type of woman you'd like to marry and where you'd like your kids and their kids to grow up.

Remember one thing though, don't regret anything. Don't be dying, lying there in some hospital somewhere in Ireland wondering what would have happened if you had moved back to Sweden. Don't let us on AAM or anyone else be the deciding factor. I really think it's something that you should decide for yourself (and your potential family's future).

Just as there's no such thing as a stupid question, there's no such thing as a stupid decision (for an individual). If it means you come out the other side with cuts and bruises you'll be all the more wiser. If you come out the other side happier then bully for you.

One of Crowded Houses last songs was titled 'Everything is good for you' the next line is 'If it doesn't kill you'.

I'm a firm believer in that.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Is there a www.askaboutmoney.se?