Ireland - Its sinking ..

Shame on you piggy

Now now what you said about max.. was a bit immature ..

Unfortunately he has
a lot of valid points. And that IS the point. Do you not want to change things for the better in Ireland? You can by not voting the same gobshites back in power. You can by making small changes in your everyday life. Being nicer to each other not cutting people off in traffic, no tail gating either! Rise above this culture of materialism and build a fare and just society but it has to start with YOU. If you as a citizen are not honest, try and fiddle the taxes then what hope for our politicians.

I do appreciate NathanielStarbuck's post there is a lot of beauty in Ireland and we are not as over populated as perhaps the UK is. We need to build on this though. Why does there have to be so much traffic chaos on our roads? WHy does there have to be so much money hemoraging from our hostpitals. We can change it. Thats what democracy is all about.

Elk

Re: Shame on you piggy

I'd have to agree with icantbelieveitstaken on his post.

Elk..

"Do you not want to change things for the better in Ireland? You can by not voting the same gobshites back in power. You can by making small changes in your everyday life. Being nicer to each other not cutting people off in traffic, no tail gating either! Rise above this culture of materialism and build a fare and just society but it has to start with YOU. If you as a citizen are not honest, try and fiddle the taxes then what hope for our politicians."

You seem to have moved into completely different territory here. No one would argue with these points...but again, where does this relate to your original question. I'm not saying you don't have the right to ask these questions.

BTW, we vote for the same gobshites every time because they're all we have. Read the rest of this forum for more on that.

Elk...

just to add my 2 cents...unlike you i'm not irish, i moved here about 9 years ago as I was well sick of living in Italy(Rome of all places). 9 years ago dublin to me was good fun, quiet, approachable people and the usual things foreigners like about oirland...the craic(beer) and all that...i guess in the last 9 years i've turned a bit sour like some of the guys in here as things like house prices, car traffic, vomit everywhere and the buffoons you have elected (twice!!!!!) have spoiled things somewhat....I still can't go home, I hate Italy, yea the sun is great, the food, the luvely girls...its still a stupid country, for me. I prefer living here...I guess you have to find it in yourself where you wanna be and stay there. I don't think any of guys in here can tell you much about that...in fact I find in this forum you get some precious good advice on financial matters and practical things but pretty little else. good luck.

Defending Ireland ..

Lets get a few things straight here.

1) I do not believe in a Utopia.
2) I am here (been back one year) because I believed the hype about Ireland being a young vibarant country where community still mattered.
3) I see very little of that in the city where I live. Ireland has changed in that respect.
4) I came back with a very positive view of Ireland not looking for the negative. I also realised there was a period of adjustment after being away for so long.
5) I'm sorry with the exception of NathanielStarbuck none of you have given any rational arguments for livingin Ireland. I'm sorry its not enough to say people have personal reasons. Im trying to assertain some positive apsects of Irish society today.
6) It does not matter if I want to leave Ireland or not. Very few of you are interested in why?

A big contributor to the social ills in Ireland today is apathy. Nobody cares until it happens to them. Nobody cares until its their son who gets knocked down by a drunk driver, nobody cares until its their daughter who dies in a hostpital corridoor, nobody cares until its your childeren who have to be educated in unsafe buildings nobody cares until its YOU who is attacked in the street.

Nobody seems to care until it happens to them.

Elk

Re: Shame on you piggy

Quick point, democracy is not all about change, democracy is what we have. We've not been ruled by dictators for the past 80 years, we voted for our governments assessed the policies they pursued and voted again reflecting this. The status quo has been democratically voted for by the people of this country, I may not necessarily agree with it but I do respect the fact that this is how it works.

Re: Defending Ireland ..

Hang on while I put my Kleenex away.

I hate to be sarcastic (well, that's not entirely true), but you're Irish Elk. How long were you away? 25 years?

Sure Ireland has changed...but you already know what it's like to be Irish and live here. This idea that we haven't given you a long list of lovely things to make you want to stay here is laughable.

Oh well...it doesn't matter I suppose. The people who like it here will stay. The people who don't will move. That's the way it's always been.

Incidentally Elk, a lot of people on this board care about their country. I'm one of them. But I still like it here. Find your own happiness. If it's not in Ireland then maybe it's somewhere else.

question

Piggy, I think what we are trying to say is that if you could somehow move your family and friends to Sweden, Australia or Austria (for example), you would prefer to live in each of those countries than Ireland. I know that I lived in all three and found them better countries to live in than Ireland. The only thing that brought me home were family and friends and decent Guinness........

Re: question

I understand Paul.

It's a relevant question, but also a very personal one.

For me...honestly, no. I like Ireland.

Thanks everyone

Quote Piggy :
"Incidentally Elk, a lot of people on this board care about their country."

You have never said why?

You will not provide a list because you are not able to.

Anyway enough of this I've made my point and the point is I want the best for the people of Ireland. You aren't getting it though ..

Good luck and thanks for the debate (I'd better go do some work in the real world before I loose my job and then I really will have to leave Ireland look for work elsewhere )

Thanks again everyone (especially Piggy who kept the debate running)

Elk

Ohh noo, piggy! Is the technology you use and deliver to Irish companies? Noo, they are American. And the VC that supported your employer in its formative period? Probably American. Ohh, ex-Irish. The over-inflated sense of self that is 'Irishness' dosen't wash in the world. The rest of the EU laughs at us. Even smallest the newest entrants, who by the way lost more lives and paid dearly than Ireland for their freedom, guffaw over the self-importance on display here.

And if Ireland carries on in its polluted, environmentally unsound, and generally arrogant posturing, it could well again become a crap place to be (read as diaspora).

Re: Thanks everyone

"You will not provide a list because you are not able to."

I did answer Elk...just not the way you wanted. I told you...it's personal.

I'll give you a small example. I love the Dublin mountains. Always have...ever since I was a child.
I just bought a house which overlooks them. So, I have the city right beside me and the mountains when I go home. It's little things like that make me tick.
I also love Dublin nightlife. It's fantastic.

All the things you love about a place are usually personal.

Good luck with your decision one either way.

Ohh noo, piggy! Is the technology you use and deliver to Irish companies? Noo, they are American. And the VC that supported your employer in its formative period? Probably American. Ohh, ex-Irish. The over-inflated sense of self that is 'Irishness' dosen't wash in the world. The rest of the EU laughs at us. Even smallest the newest entrants, who by the way lost more lives and paid dearly than Ireland for their freedom, guffaw over the self-importance on display here.

And if Ireland carries on in its polluted, environmentally unsound, and generally arrogant posturing, it could well again become a crap place to be (read as diaspora).

"Is the technology you use and deliver to Irish companies? Noo, they are American"

Nice use of colour max.

We're a small Irish start-up company providing software for banks...some in Ireland, some in Germany. No Americans in here I'm afraid.

Your views suggest that you hold a lot of hostility towards the world max, Ireland in particular. Maybe you shouldn't be living in Ireland either.

.

How's about this for a list of the things that make this country great:
1) Gerry Ryan, and his focus on discussing potatoes that look remarkably like genitals

Click to expand...

Very funny. I take it his lowbrow buffoonery has maintained it's broadcast standards in the several merciful years since I've been subjected to it. RTE always excelled in the mediocre.

Does Pat Kenny still get airtime?

Anyone mentioned scumbags yet? I think Ireland (Dublin and Limerick anyway) has an excellent stock of this vile species.

A twist on the original question

Just thought I'd get a little more out of this by asking people where they would rather bring their kids up. I should only probably ask this of people who have lived in other countries.

I understand that it would depend on the person and their family structure (brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins). But that aside, base your answer on what would be best for your kids and their future - not you and the ties that bind you.

.

Your views suggest that you hold a lot of hostility towards the world max

Click to expand...

Now if you tell Piggy about your relationship with your mother I'd say he'll provide a full diagnosis.

Ireland of the welcomes !

Big round of applause to Elk and all who have supported his views.

I spent 8 years living in London, returned in 2002. The only reason I remain is my family and friends, and it is becoming marginal at that. I echo all the sentiments expressed by Elk, this place is turning into one big toilet.

Most of my gripes are already covered, if i can just add that the status of children in this country ranks somewhere below pets and material wealth. If you bring your young to a restaurant, they generally look at you as if you've turned up with a couple of urine covered vagrants ( one or to exceptions, but that seems to be the general attitude). General toileting/changing facilities for children are often non existant, and in the odd place where the wheelchair loo doubles as the baby changing facility, its normally covered in piss anyway and stinks. The cost of child care and lack of public provision for pre school child development programmes are a huge disincentive to work, and a double edged sword.

blah blah blah I'm bored with my own complaints, nobody listens, political process in this place a waste of time, they really are only interested in feathering their own nest, local issues, what de paper might say.

And for all you smart asses who say I don't have to stay, your right I don't. But it is interesting that it seems to be mostly those that have lived abroad and experienced the alternative, that are positioned to make informed judgements on what ireland is really loike. I guess you'll always think its great until you can compare.

By This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, did I ever think I'd see the day where I was championing London over Dublin ! (sweaty summer tubes and trains apart )

...but hey, piggy, you got yours so all the rest can piss-off. Right? Your 'Irishness' extends no further than your front door. And like soo many others here, you cannot answer a direct question. Why is that? Right or wrong, you should set an example and stand for personal accountability. Not the usual mealy-mouthed drivel we hear ad finitum ad nauseum.

Oz

not planning on kids but if it happened I'd prefer Italy for the schooling. Mostly to avoid the drinking and drug culture prevalent in Dublin.

Re: Ireland of the welcomes !

"But it is interesting that it seems to be mostly those that have lived abroad and experienced the alternative, that are positioned to make informed judgements on what ireland is really loike. I guess you'll always think its great until you can compare."

That's an interesting point niallymac,

I've lived in Australia, America, Singapore for a short time, england.
I've also seen a considerable amount of the world. Last holiday was Brazil for 4 weeks.
Yet, I choose to live here...a truly informed choice. I have 5 close friends who've done similar...all living here now, 4 of them in Dublin.