Ireland - Its sinking ..

Piggy ...

I do regonise that but you still have yet to offer a valid argument for living in Ireland.

What are the postive sides to living in Ireland? You have not mentioned one single aspect. You have just pointed out that every country has a negative side. Which is true. I have yet to hear you mention anything postive about Ireland ..

Elk

Re: Piggy ...

"I do regonise that but you still have yet to offer a valid argument for living in Ireland."

With all due respect Elk (and I mean that) that's a ridiculous question!!!

Standard of living probably only makes up a small part of why people live in a country.
I live in Ireland for many reasons. A few of them might be, my roots are here: My family, my friends. I feel comfortable here. I like it here. There's a few reasons. That's more than good enough of a justification to not move abroad.
You'll find most people give you the same answer.

Without responding to you with the response you didn't want. Why come home and moan about why anyone would not want to live here? Obvioulsy people do like it here. If you're happier in Sweden then that's wonderful...for you.

..

I have yet to hear you mention anything postive about Ireland ..

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How's about this for a list of the things that make this country great:
1) Gerry Ryan, and his focus on discussing potatoes that look remarkably like genitals
2) Winning Streak
3) Quality papers like the "Sunday World" and the "Star"
4) Extremely well paid Government employees
5) Intellectuals like a certain North Kerry TD holding the balance of power in the country
6) Our Eurovision entries

'stralia

I lived in Australia for a year ... But it has downsides too

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Care to elaborate piggy? Just curious. Contemplating a move over there myself and I'm finding it hard to come up with negatives.

Piggy...

I respect your opinion that you wish to stay in ireland. But there has to be a reason. If your reason is that you have family and friends here well then thats fine. I dont have family here and as for friends .. well it seems to me that a lot of people here only want to be your friend if you are into going out and getting hammered at the weekend. We have made friends and its with people who have moved away and came back. I guess we havemore in common.

It unfare of you to throw "Why come back and moan? about the place.. etc.." I didnt come back to moan about anything. I came back to Ireland because I thought it might be a nice place to live. That people might be a bit more friendly and down to earth etc. Well this in my experience does not seem to be the case. Ireland has changed.

Also if you were coming back to a country where you had never owned a house and were wanting to buy one and the prices being so high. How can one feel good about that.

There some major things wrong with Ireland just now. The Health Service is a disgrace! You should be ashamed of it.. What have you got to be proud of in Ireland? G.A.A.?

As for the argument of having your "roots".. That certainly doesn't apply to everyone. There are plenty of people who feel unable or uncomfortable living in the country of their birth.

The main points of my post was .. one to let of steam and two for people to help me perhaps to see the positive side.. I have yet to hear it..

Elk

Re: 'stralia

Honestly, it's kinda hard to because it's all so subjective. Australia is a really great place. I loved it.

Downsides that spring to mind immediately are -
You're thousands of miles from your friends and your family.

But there's more to it than that. Maybe for me it was different. I lived in melbourne for 5 months, but I spent a lot of time travelling. I missed certain things...like I said, Irish women!!! :|

:lol


It's different for everybody. I found the Aussies not to my taste either sometimes...for lots of different reasons. I met some really nice ones though.

Re: Piggy...

"The main points of my post was .. one to let of steam and two for people to help me perhaps to see the positive side.. I have yet to hear it.."

If you feel you need people to tell why it's good to live here then you might as well move back to Sweden.

Ireland has changed. You'll either accept it or you won't.

I don't mean any disrespect in that...it's my open & honest opinion.

thanks

Thanks Piggy,

You've helped me a lot. You don't seem to be able to give me an answer to Why should anyone live in Ireland? Other than friends and family (which has nothing to do with a countries qualities) and the fact that your Oirish tru and tru ..

Maybe I will move back to Sweden but I tell you something this past year has been a real eye opener.

Your remark "Ireland has changed you can either accept it or not" was funny. I don't accept the government building a big spike in Dublin while people die in hostpital corridoors without the respect they are due.

I do not accept people who were caught drink driving being "let off" because they are famous or have money.

I do not accept the blatent racism against immigrants that is prevalent here.

I do not accept paying taxes and not having basic services such as health and education working properly.

I do not accept the crass commercial, materialistic place Ireland has become.

I do not accept the mass corruption of our elective representatives.

And I do not accept the drink culture that cause so much strife in family and social life.

If that is modern Ireland. I do not accept it. I have no problem leaving here. Many people I know feel the same way. That IS a shame ...

You should be asking yourself why people coming back to Ireland feel this way? What can we do as a nation to improve life here? The "THATS THE WAY THINGS ARE JUST ACCEPT IT ATTITUDE" is part of the problem.

It saddens me ..

Elk

'stralia

There's a great big hole in the ozone just above the country. If I think of anything else I'll get back to you...

Re: thanks

"You've helped me a lot. You don't seem to be able to give me an answer to Why should anyone live in Ireland? Other than friends and family (which has nothing to do with a countries qualities) and the fact that your Oirish tru and tru .."

You sound a little miffed Elk. I was just being honest with you. I never said I was Oirish tru and tru.

I'm one of those people who chose to come back here by the way.

You seem to have made up your mind about the country so I'm even more puzzled as to why you'd want people to try to convince you to stay.

Do you think anyone can convince you to stay?

Incidentally, I'm also a little confused about you not accepting things. Fine, if you don't accept them it seems like you have two choices. 1) Try to change them or 2) leave.
Again, I'm not being smart...but it looks like you've already made up your mind.

.

Our health system a disgrace?

Sure all you have to do is pay an extra few hundred of euro per year (insurance) and then the health care professionals who would have been looking after the poor people will instead come and look after you.

Ah sure it's great. It means you get excellent service.

Though try not to feel guilty that the poor people have to wait (and die) while you get fast-tracked because you had more money to spend than them. Peasants, who'd have them...

Re: Positives

I lived abroad for over 10 years and returned a few years ago. The main reason I came back is family, but there are other reasons to stay too.

Firstly, and obviously, democracy and the rule of law. That puts us above about 60% of the rest of the world. Don't take it for granted.

Secondly, religious extremism is actually not an issue here (and don't talk about Northern Ireland - apart from a few Paisleyites nobody up there is actualy fighting over the divinity of the Virgin). The fact is that you can be openly atheist. Or Christian. Or whatever you want. That is not true in much of the 'free world'.

This is a beautiful country. If you're feeling low take the N11 from Dublin to Avondale and walk. Or stand on Killiney hill and look out towards Wales. Or stroll the pier in Howth. Or through the leafy boulevards in D4. I could go on for hours.

The weather isn't bad. We don't have to worry about hurricanes, typhoons, wildfires or extremes of hot and cold. And we have seasons - which is a good thing - the tropics can be very montonous.

There is a rich and deep sense of history, and people care about the past.

I'm amazed when I hear about people say how bad Ireland has become. When I left in the early nineties it was a depressing shithole. Now we have (some) good roads, better public transport, some urban renewal. IMO Ireland has improved greatly and continues to improve.

Yes there are awful aspects. House prices for one. Binge drinking culture for another.

But at the end of the day, wherever you live, your life will mostly be defined by the job you do and the family you go home to. Aim for happiness there and you might find that the old country isn't so bad after all.

Re: thanks

Elk,

There are countries where corruption is a real problem for all members of society. In Ireland corruption is a real problem for some people, but an intellectual problem for most.

And most people are disgusted by it and there are processes and efforts to rid the country of it.

Try living in the Philippines if you want to know the despair that real endemic corruption can cause.

Rasicm is hugely overblown as an issue in Ireland. Most people are not rascist. Our institutions are not rascist. I have family of non-white ethnicity who have had no problems in this country. I also know people who were beaten up because they spoke with a Killiney, rather than Ballybrack, accent. Just because there are pychos in society it is wrong to describe the country as rascist - it's not.

<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->It's why the Irish remain in Ireland. Those that were led or fled to North America or Oz now live in co-operative societies. Not perfect societies, but desirable ones.

20 years ago this land was a lousy place to be. Then the EU lost its collective mind and handed the Irish clowns (oops, government) 39Bln euro. And with no need for funding an infrastructural budget, taxes were slashed. The Americans (ex-Irish, remember?) swooped in. Not to turn a profit in Ireland. Nooo! There wasn't and isn't an economy here. They realised that they could sell into Europe and show the two fingers to the continent by paying the rates in Ireland.

We attracted some American manufacturing (departing at the moment. Extra credit for those who know why!) and some call centres. Oh, I forgot the numerous accountancy positions. Not traders, consultants, M&A dealmakers, but bookkeepers.

The 39Bln euro was handed over to grasping landowners and farmers (who don't farm because the EU pays them not to) for roads (there's a progressive plan) and then nothing. The M50 will celebrate its 20th anniversary as a work in progress.

And if by some perverse reason some Irish punters have a go at creating wealth and by extention, employment, the Irish psyche drives us to wish them ill. Sick and twisted is how I would describe that behaviour. And immature.

The next diaspora is upon us. The educated will flee (what have the returnees worked at abroad? Elk?) this time. The difference this time is that there will not be the same level of wages remitted.

That's a fascinating planet you live on maxhopper.

Jeez Maxhopper - you're right!!

I do hope that some benevolent force comes along and makes everything okay for us.

Or maybe it would be better if we all just did the world a favour and jumped into the Atlantic; so that intelligent, motivated, lathargy-free folks could come alone and run the island properly.

To all the glib posters, you are displaying the exact behaviour of negativism that I described. None of you can directly and adequately address Elk's question. And the reason is that there are no rational reasons to live here. The best and brightest have moved on. Silence me by naming an Irish person amongst us that is of world-class quality. And if you can only point to entertainment celebraties, then eliminate those that depend on US-, Oz-, and UK-based audiences and studios. The Englishspeakers on the planet account for but 400Mln. I want to know of people that create wealth, hope, and a future in Ireland.Don't tax yourselves too much. LOL

maxhopper

bang on.

"To all the glib posters, you are displaying the exact behaviour of negativism that I described. None of you can directly and adequately address Elk's question. And the reason is that there are no rational reasons to live here"

No max...the reason it can't be answered is because it's an unanswerable question. Especially as he's Irish in the first place. Sure...you could spout onto a non-national about some aspects of Irish life...but Elk is an Irish citizen.
Your last post was high farce max. Didn't even make sense.

I work in IT max...one of those fading industries in Ireland!!! Imagine that.

People choose to live where they do for personal reasons...reasons which would not make sense to other people. They're usually complicated reasons too.

No rational reasons to live here...give me a break :\

The "next diaspora", where? We've managed (so far) to ride out a global recession with what is basically considered full employment. We've so many job vacancies that its one of the reasons we're the only country not stopping people from the accession countries from coming here to work.
As has been said, in Ireland we have a pretty good standard of living where the pluses of city and country living can be experienced every day. The Irish quality of life is based around social values of being close to family and friends, feeling an affinity with the country and the genuine community spirit that exists no matter where you live. Being Irish is strongly related to knowing our shortcomings and feeling drawn together because of them.
There's still a living memory of what it took for us to attain our nation and it reminds us that while it may not be perfect it was worth our grandparents blood struggle to acheive. We have a beautiful country, a rich heritage to be proud of, a strong sense of community and the will to try to make things better.
Everyone seems to avoid saying that if you don't like it you don't have to live it but it's true and it's your choice. If you can't see any good in this country to justify playing a part in trying to make it better then return to your utopia. As someone who lives and loves my life in this country I don't see why I should be expected to convince anyone who thinks otherwise. I don't compare my life to that of other people in other countries because it isn't some competition where I'm trying to beat them. If you prefer life elsewhere then great for you but the logical question will always be why are you here if its so much better elsewhere.