Key Post Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

[QUOTE="Aidan

When do people in a Ponzi scheme finally know they are in a Ponzi scheme?[/QUOTE]

When you are unable to get your money out after repeated attempts, and the fund is still accepting new clients/money

Here is an example of one that was sold as being very secure some years back, and promised yields of 8% per year. The thing was in the case of this fund, while some people were trying desperately to get their money out, it was still being recomended to new clients by so called financial advisors who were earning high commissions...
 
I phoned today, have shares in FIP10 AND 11, was told that 9 plans are being offered to a preferred bidder, who have until end of sept to opt to buy, if directors accept their offer, it will then proceed to sale.
 
Letter today re 6th Forestry Investment Plan - according to Paul Brosnan, chairman IFS, a "preferred bidder" for the assets has now been selected, and that bidder will be given till the end of September to "complete a term sheet and submit a final bid".

This seems a bit odd. Surely there was enough time during the original bidding process, which has dragged on for two years now, for enough information to be exchanged to consider all bids final?

Anyway, that's the latest.

Edit: hadn't seen the above posts, so no new info here really...
 
Just got the letter in the door - "Should the bid be acceptable, the process the complete the sale will take some months to finalise" 2016 it is then!
 
Just got letters in the door myself re my investments in FIP4,FIP5,FIP6. Identical content to what Extopia got above "preferred bidder" "End Sept".
 
What a joke, my update letter just landed!! That Brosnan lad gets the award for biggest waffler of the year. Does he think we're all mugs? I've sent a final mail to the tireless Ms. McCarthy to express my total disillusionment with the lot of them. This is a con job of the highest order. I ain't going to waste any more time asking for updates or keeping the forum updated with their replies, because basically the message is the same. Thanks for the updates over the years folks, good luck with whatever return we may get.
 
ignorant1 said:
Just got letters in the door myself re my investments in FIP4,FIP5,FIP6. Identical content to what Extopia got above "preferred bidder" "End Sept".
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm new here.

So are they spinning a yarn? Or is the "preferred bidder" going to buy up all the FIPs 4-6?

This is extremely serious, in my opinion.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~Edmund Burke.

If this really is a Ponzi scheme, or a variant thereof, then we can't just sit back and passively our money disappear.

This requires concerted and determined action. How is the forestry investment sector regulated? between the various FIPs there must be a large number of people affected. I think we should take some kind of group action, to get answers if nothing else. Please send me a private message if you agree. As I said, I'm new here, so I don't even know if there's a PM facility on the site.
 
I got same letter for FIP10 but not 11, article below i found online but cant past link on here

Growing Concern


CL writes from Dublin: I invested in the 2nd Irish Forestry Fund in 2001 and every year received their positive investment statements and new investment opportunities.


In December 2010 I received an end of year report valuing the shares at €1,250. This June I was informed that the Second Irish Forestry Fund had been sold, with a per share maturity value of €1,027, an 18% drop in value. I was subsequently told by one of the directors that ‘the price they received was the price they received’ when they tendered the company. The Second Forestry Fund was sold to their sister companies.


I understand from their 2010 report that Forestry Investment experienced slightly lower prices in 2010 based on both land values and sales values due to lower construction activity, but that this would have been captured in the 2010 share value I received last December. I am still awaiting an explanation as to what caused such a dramatic fall in the share value in the five months from when I received the dividend.



Trevor McHugh, a Forestry Investment director, who said that last December’s statement was only a projection of the share value, not its actual market value of your shares.

The formulas used to determine a projected share value and an actual market value, which is what buyers use to determine the price they will bid when the Fund term matures and it is put up for sale, are not the same, he said. The market value takes into account real-time factors on that particular day, and these can – as with any commodity or asset – affect the sale price.

The Forestry Funds are not regulated investment products like life assurance investment or private pension funds and so can make share value projections that would not be permitted for the likes of life assurance funds.

This is only the second of the Forestry Funds to be sold, but my understanding is that the First Fund, which matured in 2010, did not deliver earlier share projections either, though it did achieve an 8.3% annual return for its investors.

All Forestry Fund investors are invited to contact the company, at any time, to discuss their shareholdings, or any investment statements they receive, Mr McHugh said.

You should arrange a meeting with the directors to discuss your disappointment in the return you received.
 
The IFS/FIP set-up is beginning to sound more and more like a Ponzi scheme in an unregulated market.

For me two things stand out in the above post:

1: "In December 2010 I received an end of year report valuing the shares at €1,250. This June I was informed that the Second Irish Forestry Fund had been sold, with a per share maturity value of €1,027, an 18% drop in value. I was subsequently told by one of the directors that ‘the price they received was the price they received’ when they tendered the company. The Second Forestry Fund was sold to their sister companies."

The price they received was the price they received, except that the same entity was on both sides of the deal. Irish Forestry Services would appear to have a vested interest in selling an earlier Fund at a loss, because this would help them reduce the losses in the later Fund buying them.

That is exactly what happens in pyramid schemes: funds from earlier investors are used to give later investors the impression that all is well. It looks as if IFS is robbing Peter to pay Paul, and nobody is tackling them.



2. "You should arrange a meeting with the directors to discuss your disappointment in the return you received."

Exactly. I suggest we form an action group of concerned investors and demand a meeting asap with Paul Brosnan et al. Any takers?
 
UPDATE

Is IFS Chairman Paul Brosnan the same Paul Brosnan, former banker, who with his father, millionaire and former Kerry Group founder/CEO Denis Brosnan, was one of several Irish investors in a company which became embroiled in a UK nursing home scandal a few years ago?

I can't post links yet. Search for the following strings on Google:

"Nursing home czars unaware of their citizens' anguish"
"Care home boss quits as firm at centre of abuse exposé prepares for criticism"
"Castlebeck Ltd which uses the trading name Casterbridge Care is owned by fellow Irishman Denis Brosnan and his son Paul Brosnan"
"Money grows on trees for forestry fund investors"
 
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Mr. Paul Brosnan is a Director of The International Forestry Fund. He co-founded the Irish Forestry Funds in 1997 and is Marketing Director of IFS Asset Managers Ltd. He developed the marketing strategy for the Irish Forestry Funds but began his career in corporate finance in Australia and commercial finance in Britain prior to establishing successful businesses in Central Europe and in Belfast. Mr. Brosnan is also Managing Director and Chairman of the Irish Forestry Funds.
Bertie Ahern is chairman The International Forestry Fund
 
[QUOTE="jaja95,
Bertie Ahern is chairman The International Forestry Fund[/QUOTE]

Now I am seriously concerned, nothing good can come of this chap being chairman...
 
[QUOTE="Dair Ghaelach,
2. "You should arrange a meeting with the directors to discuss your disappointment in the return you received."

Exactly. I suggest we form an action group of concerned investors and demand a meeting asap with Paul Brosnan et al. Any takers?[/QUOTE]

fully agree with you Dair Ghaelach

some questions that I would like to have answered at this stage:

1) In the case of the funds that have matured, I presume that any expenses now incurred against our investment, are just for the up-keep of the forest? If not, I would like to see a list of these expenses. If for example, people are charging business flights against the fund, and wining/dining people who cannot commit to buying the portfolio, then this is a problem...

2)Would like to know how much the directors of this fund are receiving in regards to salary and bonuses?

3)How many investors are currently waiting for payouts? If there are many of us, then we know such an action group will have some power/impact, even if its only to organize a protest/march outside their office in Dublin

4)While the current buyers are still taking amble time to make a decision to buy, has the portfolio been taken off the market? If so, then it needs to be put back on the market again, despite how much the current buyers have invested in the "Due Diligence".... Sorry but they have had enough time at this stage to make a decision.
I am concerned that while this is taking so long to complete, that an event such as the current downturn in world equities will be used by the potential buyer to re-negotiate the price or delay more... We may have missed our window to sell this.... I hope not, and that things pick up next week, but the longer this sale takes to complete, the greater the risk...

5)Again are the buyers from Ireland or abroad? I know it was mentioned earlier that we received information that they were flying to meet the customer, so the assumption was that the cusotmer is outside of Ireland. They could have been flying from Dublin to Cork possibly. Which again goes back to question 1 above, how much are we being charged here in regards to expenses?
 
I am definitely on for a group action at this stage. Not sure how this can be done seeing that we are all anonymous on this forum. Any suggestions ? The quicker this is done the better. So many valid points raised in the last 24 hours.
 
There is info about the IFS chairman on the company's website, but that is not enough to work out whether there are other business connections of interest. The reason I mentioned the ?other Paul Brosnan at all, in the context of the UK controversy referred to earlier, is that such associations would be newsworthy if push came to shove later. Of course we need diplomacy first, and we should go through the proper channels, as indicated in post #171.

jaja95 said:
Bertie Ahern is chairman The International Forestry Fund
Click to expand...

The IFF is/was a separate venture. Given the economic disaster this country suffered, and the opportunities this presented to vulture funds and other entities seeking to snap up investment bargains in Ireland, the involvement of Bertie "why don't they commit suicide" Ahern sickened a lot of people (I was one of them). However, if you do a Google search for Helvetia Wealth and the International Forestry Fund you will see that the plan did not materialise. That's my understanding anyway. Helvetia Wealth, a Swiss partner in the venture, got into financial trouble. There is plenty of information about this online, and there is at least one thread on the subject on this website.


11Shareholder said:
I am definitely on for a group action at this stage. Not sure how this can be done seeing that we are all anonymous on this forum. Any suggestions ? The quicker this is done the better. So many valid points raised in the last 24 hours.
Click to expand...

With regard to forming an investors' action group, we're on social media so we should be using the technology accordingly. I will initiate that process shortly. Meanwhile I would suggest that you all compile a list of potentially interested parties by trawling through this forum/website to see who else might have (potential) concerns about their IFS investment. Also we need to compile a list of investment plans that have still to mature. Those of us waiting for years to get our money back will be most anxious, but later investors may be blissfully unaware that previous plans have not paid out. Perhaps some awareness-raising is required, and there's strength in numbers. Mind you, now that I think of it, if this really is a Ponzi scheme then those actually about to receive their cheques may not want their leaky boat rocked...
 
Whilst I am a new member on this forum I have been following it with interest over the last number of weeks as both myself and my father have invested in the tenth and eleventh investment funds we would both be prepared to be involved in any group action as this would appear to be the only way any of us are going to get straight answers from IFF .
 
I asked my own accountant to look at their accounts and he has told me not to worry. The accounts are audited by Deloittes and the assets exist. It is only a question of timing. However, he did say it was difficult to identify what the final return was going to be. He expressed concern that the liquidator of three previous funds, (the second, the third and the Forestry Investment Plan Plc) has not filed any returns at the companies registration office. He said that the liquidator has failed to file at least 7 annual returns in respect of the three companies. No final returns have been filed which makes it difficult to determine what past returns the shareholders actually got. He advised me that there might be an issue with the ( tax free) status of the funds, as some of the funds have received deposit income: I.e. The returns to sHare holders might not be 100% tax free.
 
Interesting, and nice to have some insight from someone qualified.

Did your man look on the whai.ie website or cro.ie?
 
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