Investing in Poland

Qwerty -

Rental returns have plateaued in Ireland and the UK owing to oversupply and are now actually reducing. Are you saying this is not the case?

I believe the oversupply of appts and the inflated prices paid by foreign investors in Poland and elsewhere will (if it hasn't happened already) lead to a reduction in rental returns in those markets.
 
fear peile said:
I agree also not to invest in the old communist style buildings for the reasons mentioned, but I have concerns as to the affordability of the Polish people to rent at the prices quoted in the newer developments.


Does anyone have any experience of trying to rent out apartment in Warsaw ?
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I have never found it a problem. Providing you go for low-rise blocks, close to parks, shops, public transport etc, you will not have too many problems. If you buy a new flat in a hole like Marki, you will have more problems renting in out. Young people like to be near the action they do not want to have to take a taxi from hell to breakfast in order to have a night out.
I lived in Warsaw for 10 years off and on and the comments on the board about people being in tune with the Polish psyche are interesting. It would be nice to be so sure always

I am renting out my apartment in Warsaw at the moment for 2000 PLN for a 50 sq. m flat in the centre. Similar flats are going for 11,000 per metre I bought it for 3750 eight years ago
 
Mrs.B said:
Qwerty -

Rental returns have plateaued in Ireland and the UK owing to oversupply and are now actually reducing. Are you saying this is not the case?
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What I am saying is that rents have risen substantially over the last 2 years in ireland.

And fair enough - they may have plateaued now like you say due to teh big rises we have had.

But generally - the trend has been upward over the last couple of years.
Looking at one or 2 montsh of data here and there to support your point is flawed.

Look at the bigger picture.
 
hythorn said:
I have never found it a problem. Providing you go for low-rise blocks, close to parks, shops, public transport etc, you will not have too many problems. If you buy a new flat in a hole like Marki, you will have more problems renting in out. Young people like to be near the action they do not want to have to take a taxi from hell to breakfast in order to have a night out.
I lived in Warsaw for 10 years off and on and the comments on the board about people being in tune with the Polish psyche are interesting. It would be nice to be so sure always

I am renting out my apartment in Warsaw at the moment for 2000 PLN for a 50 sq. m flat in the centre. Similar flats are going for 11,000 per metre I bought it for 3750 eight years ago
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Hi Hythorn.

Could you tell me how much rent/month I could likely achieve on a new build 1 bed 50m2 + balcony and car space on the Wola/Bemowo border.

Thanks.
 
Hi Ringledman

if it is well fitted out with all the mod-cons in the kitchen and a sumptious bathroom somebody might take a punt on it for 2000 PLN you might be able to get another 200 PLN per month for the parking space.
if the newbuild is more modesty fitted out you can expect around 1650 to 1800 a month. these prices enable you to rent it out reasonably quickly.
 
Hi hythorn,

congrats on your investment you got in there at the right time, a nice return.
I see you are getting 40pln/M sq.

This is also what i am seeking for my apartment of 70M sq in Moktow (2800pln) which also includes an underground parking place in the price. the apartment is very well finished as you described ie kitchen floors bathroom etc and I have advertised it with the option to include movable furniture. i am told there has been very little interest by my agent after now one month on the market.
Do you think I should purchase movable furniture ?
my concern is that I will still be in the same position of not being able to rent after forking out another 4-5K on movable furniture?
 
Can you really get 800 euro for a 70sqm property in Mokot[SIZE=-1]ów[/SIZE]? If you have had very little interest, then perhaps this is the main reason?
 
budapest said:
Can you really get 800 euro for a 70sqm property in Mokot[SIZE=-1]ów[/SIZE]? If you have had very little interest, then perhaps this is the main reason?
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I would consider the development to be in a very up market location.
I am seeking 40pln/M2, smaller apartments in the development are advertised in or around 50pln/M2.
the reason I am being told is that there is little interest is that I dont have the movable furniture included in the apartment pictures and most of the tenants want furnished apartments,
 
I see. If it's a luxury development, then it would seem to make sense to furnish to a high standard - closer to 8,000 euro rather than 4,000. Your property will need to stand out from the crowd in what is likely to be a limited market.
 
fear peile said:
I would consider the development to be in a very up market location.
I am seeking 40pln/M2, smaller apartments in the development are advertised in or around 50pln/M2.
the reason I am being told is that there is little interest is that I dont have the movable furniture included in the apartment pictures and most of the tenants want furnished apartments,
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I would agree. another thing that bites you in the posterior is the size of the flat. 70 m is big by Polish standards. So if the tenant has to furnish it themselves, that is a lot of furniture to find if you are renting. I reckon that the lack of furniture ought to result in you having to drop the price by 500 PLN per month to compensate for the lack of sofas etc if you do not want to shell out
if you go to Ikea and spend around 4000 PLN you ought to be able to provide more that enough gear to entice people to rent it. It might be a tad Spartan but you can always claim that you are a fan of the minimalist approach to home furnishing :) Don't go overboard. it needs to be clean and modern looking. there is no point spending shed loads on a new rug, for example, for your tenants to put fag burns in it the first time they get lashed at a house warming party :)

nobody likes buying furniture for other people to knacker however the furniture pays for itself if you get a tenant in situ for two months
there is even a free bus to Ikea in Janki from outside Dworzec Centralny. A world of flat pack furniture awaits... they do a nice roast beef salad in the restaurant there...
 
hythorn said:
"I reckon that the lack of furniture ought to result in you having to drop the price by 500 PLN per month to compensate for the lack of sofas etc if you do not want to shell out."

Hi hythorn,

I took your advice and advertised unfurnished for 500PLN less, sure enough about 10 days later I got tenants for the apartment and it is now rented. In total I had advertised to rent for approx 6 weeks before securing tenants.
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Hi Fear peile

Glad you have gotten rented.

Having now been through the mill and out the other side, can I ask what you paid eventually for the fit out per sq m? Also on the rent side, are your renters Polish or foreigners? Professionals, workers or students?

Thanks
 
Propman said:
Hi Fear peile

Glad you have gotten rented.

Having now been through the mill and out the other side, can I ask what you paid eventually for the fit out per sq m? Also on the rent side, are your renters Polish or foreigners? Professionals, workers or students?

Thanks
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hi Propman,

Tenants are polish professionals, cost of fit out 1200PLN/M2, excellent finish, was out there to see finished product (No movable furniture)
 
has anbody bought their property as a company, i bought a 1 bed off the plans in warsaw and its due for occupation in september,id be grateful if someone could recomend a solicitor and possible an accountant that is fluent in english.does anyone know the rental rates for a 57sq meter apartment in wilanow finished and furnished to a good standard with car space might be.
 
when you say you are buying as a company do you mean you want to establish a Polish Sp zoo or an Irish limited company?

as for the rental, 3000 PLN per month furnished
you might get as much as 3500 PLN if you are very lucky.
if you are going to rent it unfurnished, knock 500 PLN off the monthly rent

what did the estate agent tell you the rent should have been when you bought it?
 
thanks horthorn,3000zlotys sounds alot of money a month for poland that converts to about 850 euros per month,i have difficulty understanding how expensive the rents seem to be,ive been on alot of websites and was reluctant to believe what i was seeing given the wages are so low over there,i couldnt believe how cheap it was to live there compared to other europeann citys,i was thinking of the polish company as i didn't want to be exempt from getting the benifits of first time buyers tax allowances in my home country given that i own nothing here and the polish property is to me like a bussiness or investment,i asked about the vat because alot of people here in ireland were able to get the vat back in a lump sum on new investment propertys here up untill recently but i doubt its the same thre anyway i only paid 7%on the apartment and 22 on the car space so i havent been hit that hard,i was sort of thinking down the line a bit of how if i sold it at a later date i might get out of paying capital gains tax in my home country given that is 20% and only 10 in poland,i really hope youre whritish about the rent thats alot more than i would have expected,how come you only get 2000 zloty per month for your 50m place in near the centre of warsaw when thats where the higher rents are. when i purchased i had an idea the rental may cover the morgage given i was paying 30% of the price in staged payments and to be honest that was my main concern getting on a property lader any lader will do me im a good climber!!! in hinsight it appears i seem to have made the right decision at the time,thought alot of other places were far to risky,though i do know prices in some parts of poland have stagnated and even a small decline in some placesbut to me it was all about getting an asset,please do drop me back more info if you have any.i didn't deal with an estate agent i delt dirrectly with the builder,i kind of did my own research. mr murphy
 
thanks horthorn,3000zlotys sounds alot of money a month for poland that converts to about 850 euros per month,i have difficulty understanding how expensive the rents seem to be,ive been on alot of websites and was reluctant to believe what i was seeing given the wages are so low over there,i couldnt believe how cheap it was to live there compared to other europeann citys,i was thinking of the polish company as i didn't want to be exempt from getting the benifits of first time buyers tax allowances in my home country given that i own nothing here and the polish property is to me like a bussiness or investment,i asked about the vat because alot of people here in ireland were able to get the vat back in a lump sum on new investment propertys here up untill recently but i doubt its the same thre anyway i only paid 7%on the apartment and 22 on the car space so i havent been hit that hard,i was sort of thinking down the line a bit of how if i sold it at a later date i might get out of paying capital gains tax in my home country given that is 20% and only 10 in poland,i really hope youre whritish about the rent thats alot more than i would have expected,how come you only get 2000 zloty per month for your 50m place in near the centre of warsaw when thats where the higher rents are. when i purchased i had an idea the rental may cover the morgage given i was paying 30% of the price in staged payments and to be honest that was my main concern getting on a property lader any lader will do me im a good climber!!! in hinsight it appears i seem to have made the right decision at the time,thought alot of other places were far to risky,though i do know prices in some parts of poland have stagnated and even a small decline in some placesbut to me it was all about getting an asset,please do drop me back more info if you have any.i didn't deal with an estate agent i delt dirrectly with the builder,i kind of did my own research. mr murphy
 
Dear Mr M
I do not have to time at the moment to answer the other questions but I will get back to you later.
The information below is in Polish but expressions such as 56m2, Wilanow and 3000 zl are fairly universal





Typ oferty:​





wynajem / mieszkania​





Powierzchnia:​





56 m2​





Cena:​





3 000 zł​





Pokoje:​





2​





Piętro:​





2​





Ilość kondygnacji:​





3​









Województwo:​





mazowieckie​





Powiat/miasto:​





Warszawa​





Gmina/dzielnica:​





Wilanów​





Adres:​





ul. Rumiana​





Kod pocztowy:​





2004-01-01​





Opis​


Bardzo ładne mieszkanie w luksusowym apartamentowcu. Jest ochrona i alarm. Balkon - ok. 10m.kw. Jest TV SAT, NEOSTRADA. Miejsce postojowe w garażu. Może być całkowicie wyposażone. Doskonały dojazd, bardzo dobre sąsiedztwo. Cena do negocjacji!​


here's another one

Typ oferty:wynajem / mieszkania
Powierzchnia: 60 m2
Cena: 3 535 zł
Pokoje:2
Piętro:2
Ilość kondygnacji:4
[B]Województwo:[/B]mazowieckie[B]Powiat/miasto:[/B]Warszawa[B]Gmina/dzielnica:[/B]Wilanów[B]Adres:[/B]ul. Sarmacka

any road up it did say in the first ad that the price was to be negotiated.
Wilanow has always been one of the nicer suburbs however it is in the process of being flooded by lots of cheerful new developments

will get back to you later though

have a good one

Hythorn
 
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Hi
This is an interesting discussion on the Polish market. Agree with the majority of what people had to say.

There is a good article on the current state of the Polish market on the PropertySecrets website and some interesting commentary that follows:

http://www.propertysecrets.net/forum/poland_property_a_different_view/9773/31857.html

It is written by one of the websites members with experience of developing and working in the Polish market with several years and presents a very knowledgeable and unbiased point of view.

propgirl
 
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