Investing in Poland

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acrobat

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Hi all, wondering if anyone here has or is looking at investing in Poland. I have an investment property here in Dublin and looking abroad now because of cheaper prices, all the pages I read on the web and from what I read in the papers Poland is the place to invest as its really about to take off. What has your experience been? Any advise on other countries? What should I look out for? Have I missed out already on Poland?
Thanks a lot
 
Do your home work before you buy. prices took off in Poland since 2004. All the major city apartment prices have increased substantially since,
Have a look at the Warsaw business journal online, good article there about prices in the residential section. also in the Warsaw voice residential Jan 16th (Primary markets quiter in 2007)
 
Prices have begun to settle down in poland after a coiple of years of substantial growth.
That said - by all accounts it has good potential.

A lot of FDI goes to poland. Way more than other countries in the east.

I have bought over there.

If you want to buy in warsaw (which i would recommend as it has all the employment) then i would suggest going to [broken link removed].pl

It's run by an irish guy who has been living obver there for the last number of years.

I bought through him. He has good located properties in central warsaw - 10% down - the remainder on completion.
 
Hi qwertyuiop,

I refer to your quote
" by all accounts it has good potential. "

You say you have bought in Warsaw - have you tried to rent or sell your apartment yet ?
 
I assume that a lot of projects are still in development stage, but has anyone successfully rented their Polish apartment yet and at what return? On www.warsawproperties.pl, the cheapest property in the Capital Art Apartments development in Wola is 140,000 euro for 42sqm, so you would need a rent of 700 euro per month to get even a 6% return for what is quite a small property. Is this achieveable?
 
fear peile said:
Hi qwertyuiop,

I refer to your quote
" by all accounts it has good potential. "

You say you have bought in Warsaw - have you tried to rent or sell your apartment yet ?
Click to expand...

No. Won't be completed for another 18 months.
 
No. Won't be completed for another 18 months.[/quote]

I suggest if you havent already done so that you ask your agent at Warsaw Properties what the market is like for sale or the rental of your apartment, ie expected rental income, occupancy rates and what lenght of time it will take to rent the apartment after finishing and their fees from the landlored and the tenant !!

In my opinion there is now an over supply of apartments in Warsaw for sale and also to rent, some developers are now offering significant discounts trying to off load apartments that they cannot sell.

Polands average gross wage is PLN 2969, which is approx 840 euro/mth so work out the affordability to the rent you are quoted !!

I would be interested in what they had to say
 
budapest said:
I assume that a lot of projects are still in development stage, but has anyone successfully rented their Polish apartment yet and at what return? On www.warsawproperties.pl, the cheapest property in the Capital Art Apartments development in Wola is 140,000 euro for 42sqm, so you would need a rent of 700 euro per month to get even a 6% return for what is quite a small property. Is this achieveable?
Click to expand...

I enquired about these apartments last year but from a different agent. Didnt buy as i already bought in Warsaw and waiting to see what rental market is like. The apartments are in a good location just beside the Hilton hotel and not far from the business district and the city centre. In fact the same developer built the Hilton.
If the 700 rent is acheivable is a good question but I doubt it will. I think 500 - 600 E will be more realistic, furnished. I will put money on, that most of these apartments are being bought by investors and as there are 800 in total in 3 stages, maybe a lot of competition as regards rental when completed.
 
Rents are increasing over there at the moment apparently.

In much the same way rent is increasing here when people stop buying.
 
I agree rents are falling here. No one can shift their house so they're deciding to rent em out, coupled with the slowdown in the construction industry, alot of foreign renters are out of here.
Back to Poland. Prices may be falling back, but lets put this in context. The price appriecation in 05/06 was nuts. 70-80% in some areas, Mostly attributable to the influx of foreign investors. Long term I think its a good investment location. Follow the FDI is my general investment strategy.
 
I agree that long term it's probably a good investment if you choose the right property, location, etc. However, my concern with Warsaw (and Poland in general) has always been yield. It doesn't have the same strong rental market, high yield, low-price structure, which has carried Budapest, for example, over the last few years. When Poland enters its slump (who knows when, but it will definitely happen at some stage), I wonder how well the rental market will perform for all the 'influx of foreign investors' mentioned in the last post, all competing in the same limited market.
 
that is why we have never gone after off plan builds as they do not stack up. You would pay 10,000 PLN per metre in Poznan off plan for a 38 m flat and be able to rent it out for 1800 PLN per month. then the developer would ask for 2000 PLN per metre to install a kitchen and toilet and parquet floor (ridiculously overpriced I know but we received such an offer this week)

if you went for a 25 year old flat in an existing block - perhaps the communal stairwell might be a bit shabby but the building would be watertight and with regards to the interior of your flat two coats of magnolia ought to suffice when it comes to refurbishment
the purchase cost would be around 4500 PLN per metre for a 38 m flat with a monthly rent of 1500 to 1600 PLN
 
10,000 PLN per metre is a crazy price. I went off the plans in Krakow in July 06 for 4500 PLN per metre. Due for completion in Mar 09.
The developer is looking for 9,500 on the next phase, but nothing is shifting at that price.
I'd be weary about a 25 year old flat in some comunist style block. There depressing to look at & there's loads of them available. Young Poles don't want to live in them.

The fit out costs are nuts in Poland also. I've been quoted 7,000 euro for a basic kitchen. Luckly there's an Ikea very close by.
 
Mrs.B said:
Rents are falling here Qwerty??
Click to expand...

Rents are not falling.

Generally over the last 2 years rent has increased substantially.

You can pick your odd month here and there where it may have dropped to suit your argument but the overriding major trend has been upwards for the last couple of years.

I would expect to see rents also rise in poland.
 
BK0001 said:
I'd be weary about a 25 year old flat in some comunist style block. There depressing to look at & there's loads of them available. Young Poles don't want to live in them.
Click to expand...

I would go along with that.

As the country becomes more prosperous (which is happening right now) less and less people will want to live in these apartment complexes.

In a few years time they will only attract the lower classes which can bring its own social problems which in turn will affect property.

That is obviously only speculation on my part but it certainly seems plausible to me at this juncture right now.
 
I agree also not to invest in the old communist style buildings for the reasons mentioned, but I have concerns as to the affordability of the Polish people to rent at the prices quoted in the newer developments.

I have a new finished apartment in a very good development in Mokotow, Warsaw and is advertised to rent at the market prices for one month now. I know its probably not the best time of the year to rent a property, but I was able to find tenants for a property in Ireland within a week which was advertised at the same time.
I think that the Poles are a bit like the Irish in some way, in that they like to own their own home and have a dislike to renting as they see it as dead money.

I am begining to now have serious concerns as to the rental market in Warsaw as the property is fab and I know if it were in a similar location here in Ireland it would have been snatched.

Does anyone have any experience of trying to rent out apartment in Warsaw ?
 
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