Case study investing a lump sum (8K) for house deposit

Mez! said:
What I said was, stating that in any 15 year period in history, investing in diversified ETF’s yielded significant profits reminded me of the ’you can’t lose’ pitches of Bulgarian apartment salesmen in 2005.
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Find me a period of 15 years, where you don't make a nice return? Say you invested at the worst time the day before the 2008 crash until now, you would still be way up in profit, as long as you keep calm and let the markets recover as they have done for the last 100 years!
 
How about the first 15 years of this century?

You would have come out way ahead by simply keeping your cash on deposit or by paying down your mortgage.
 
Sarenco said:
How about the first 15 years of this century?

You would have come out way ahead by simply keeping your cash on deposit or by paying down your mortgage.
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Agreed.
I love how people look at historical returns, while ignoring the interest rates over the same period. They expect the equity risk premium for the next 10 years to be multiples of its historic average.
 
Pablo Max said:
Hi
I was in a similar position many years ago at a similar age with 10k to invest. I invested into one of these "blue chip" mutual fund companies and expected great things. 12 years later when I wanted (needed) to cash it in, it was worth €10.2k. And no, I didn't need it in 2008-12, that was 2016!!
I felt like a complete mug... my savings pot paying for all those fund managers' hefty salaries. I also realised that while I was grafting all day, my money matters were neglected.
HOWEVER, that has all changed now with online investment tools. Buying & selling shares is so much cheaper and easier to do online and at short notice. The company information & analysis is all online. Competition is fierce.
My advice is to join one of those platforms, initially in "Demo" mode, and then after you get the hang of it, start trading. Best demo that I've seen is XTB (although I think their fees are higher than others...).
Now that Coronavirus has us stuck at home, it is easy to find the time & opportunity to improve.
And, of course, many stocks & markets are at huge peaks now, but you can go short (decreasing values) as well as long.
Good luck !
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if you don't mind saying which mutual fund did u invest in? thanks for the advice I think ill look into Degiro.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
I don't think you've proven your point.

Yes, fees matter, especially in the long run due to compounding.

But in the short- to medium-term the bulk of performance will be driven by markets, not whether your fees are 50bp lower per year. Otherwise if you had some great trading insight you wouldn't be posting on AAM, you'd be too busy earing hundreds of thousands a year at a hedge fund.



@Orlas Finance - if you're still reading, I would strongly advise against putting all of your wealth into individual stocks and trading them.
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thanks for the comment. I was leaning towards investment trusts on degiro. Definitely want to diversify as much as possible to lower risk.
 
Orlas Finance said:
thanks for the comment. I was leaning towards investment trusts on degiro. Definitely want to diversify as much as possible to lower risk.
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Hi Orla, what investment trusts were you looking at?

I have been trying to look at a few myself and not all of them are available on Degiro, perhaps some have been taken down with Brexit, I am not sure if it is the safest time to invest in them at the moment.
 
RedOnion said:
Any particular reason for suggesting this?
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I have read a few brokers have removed them (Degiro is one) and also I have tried to put in some mock purchases and have not been allowed, so maybe something to do with brexit but I'm not an expert on it. I think I read something about there being more clarification in March. Have you any knowledge on the above?
Thanks
 
Younginvestor93 said:
I have read a few brokers have removed them (Degiro is one) and also I have tried to put in some mock purchases and have not been allowed, so maybe something to do with brexit but I'm not an expert on it. I think I read something about there being more clarification in March. Have you any knowledge on the above?
Thanks
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They are funds. There currently isn't an 'Equivalence' agreement between the EU & UK, so UK Funds cannot be marketed to retail investors in the EU without being approved. We won't know until March if an equivalence agreement is reached.

I've no idea what this has to do with the 'safety' of these?
 
Orlas Finance said:
thanks for the comment. I was leaning towards investment trusts on degiro. Definitely want to diversify as much as possible to lower risk.
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Yes, diversification within an asset class lowers risk. Diversification across asset classes lowers risk even more.

I am still not really sure what your objectives are though. If you want to buy a house in 5 years just put it in State Savings. If you want to have fun stock- or sector-picking on de giro then enjoy yourself. You might double your money or you might halve it, but that shouldn't really be your strategy for 100% of your wealth if you want to get on the housing ladder.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Yes, diversification within an asset class lowers risk. Diversification across asset classes lowers risk even more.

I am still not really sure what your objectives are though. If you want to buy a house in 5 years just put it in State Savings. If you want to have fun stock- or sector-picking on de giro then enjoy yourself. You might double your money or you might halve it, but that shouldn't really be your strategy for 100% of your wealth if you want to get on the housing ladder.
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very good points made here. ultimately if my investment isn't worth more in 7 years I would not be happy but I would be able to manage and leave it in for 20+ years then potentially for retirement. Ideally, in 7 years I use it for a down payment on a house. I understand the risk but don't plan on trading etc I will hold for the 7 years. Also possible my horizon will be longer than 7 years as I plan to work abroad during the 7 years and might extend that longer.
 
Younginvestor93 said:
Hi Orla, what investment trusts were you looking at?

I have been trying to look at a few myself and not all of them are available on Degiro, perhaps some have been taken down with Brexit, I am not sure if it is the safest time to invest in them at the moment.
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yes, I have a similar concern about investing a lump sum right now in case markets drop suddenly so I'm going to maybe up drip in 1-2 k a month instead of all in one go.You can't time the market but spreading it out means you may buy at highs and lows? anyways I'm still learning here myself. technically I haven't used DeGiro yet, I opened an account and they are saying it's 10 days until they approve it so I don't know what is available on there yet. The trusts I liked and was recommended here were the F&C trust and the Scottish mortgage trust which is what I'm hoping is still on degiro.
 
Orlas Finance said:
yes, I have a similar concern about investing a lump sum right now in case markets drop suddenly so I'm going to maybe up drip in 1-2 k a month instead of all in one go.You can't time the market but spreading it out means you may buy at highs and lows? anyways I'm still learning here myself. technically I haven't used DeGiro yet, I opened an account and they are saying it's 10 days until they approve it so I don't know what is available on there yet. The trusts I liked and was recommended here were the F&C trust and the Scottish mortgage trust which is what I'm hoping is still on degiro.
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Hi Orla,

They are actually not on Degiro. There are many other though but they are gone for some reason. I was looking at them also because F&C Trust has a good rep long term as is pretty diversified and Scottish Mortgage Trust is a top performer.

I am thinking of setting up a Trading 212 account as they are still available on there as far as I know.
Degiro is very good and easy to use, other than not having those trusts I would recommend it. I purchased some ETF's through them, another good investment long term, you will get a nice return albeit it may not be as lucrative as investment trusts as Irish taxes are high on them at 41% but they are a very good product.

Drip feeding in to the markets can make you feel more comfortable although studies suggest lumpsums are the better option. Whatever you feel comfortable with emotionally. Time in the market beats timing the market. As long as it is a long term investment, you should be ok!
 
Younginvestor93 said:
Hi Orla,

They are actually not on Degiro. There are many other though but they are gone for some reason. I was looking at them also because F&C Trust has a good rep long term as is pretty diversified and Scottish Mortgage Trust is a top performer.

I am thinking of setting up a Trading 212 account as they are still available on there as far as I know.
Degiro is very good and easy to use, other than not having those trusts I would recommend it. I purchased some ETF's through them, another good investment long term, you will get a nice return albeit it may not be as lucrative as investment trusts as Irish taxes are high on them at 41% but they are a very good product.

Drip feeding in to the markets can make you feel more comfortable although studies suggest lumpsums are the better option. Whatever you feel comfortable with emotionally. Time in the market beats timing the market. As long as it is a long term investment, you should be ok!
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ah that's annoying, I was trying to avoid ETFs due to the complex taxation. Also was trying to avoid trading 212 as there is a 0.7% charge on money you deposit to the platform from ur debit/credit card after you have deposited 2k. This is unavoidable for Irish customers as the bank transfer option is only available if your bank is UK based. this charge is the charge the visa company charge apparently and is only new this month.
 
Orlas Finance said:
ah that's annoying, I was trying to avoid ETFs due to the complex taxation. Also was trying to avoid trading 212 as there is a 0.7% charge on money you deposit to the platform from ur debit/credit card after you have deposited 2k. This is unavoidable for Irish customers as the bank transfer option is only available if your bank is UK based. this charge is the charge the visa company charge apparently and is only new this month.
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I did not know this. Thanks.

There are still some decent investment trusts still available on Degiro. I have also emailed them about F&C Trust and Scottish Mortgage and why they are not available. I hopefully will get a response back.
 
Orlas Finance said:
ah that's annoying, I was trying to avoid ETFs due to the complex taxation. Also was trying to avoid trading 212 as there is a 0.7% charge on money you deposit to the platform from ur debit/credit card after you have deposited 2k. This is unavoidable for Irish customers as the bank transfer option is only available if your bank is UK based. this charge is the charge the visa company charge apparently and is only new this month.
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This is wrong, I use KBC and have made bank transfers to my Trading 212 account with no problem.
 
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