Interesting data on who gets paid what in the public service

Impossible for any group to not support any Initiative Richard comes up with
 
jjm2016 said:
Impossible for any group to not support any Initiative Richard comes up with
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Unless it also involves a pay rise the unions won't support it. If it involves more teacher autonomy the unions won't support it. If it involves changes to the school year the unions won't support it. If it involves the enforcement of basic standards the unions won't support it. etc... etc... etc...

Many teachers would support any or all of the above but, as a public sector friend of mine put it, "there's no bullying like union bullying".
 
Many schools across Europe, Finland, included have dedicated career paths for students - academic or technical at age 16, upper second level. Perhaps this would help to explain why their mechanical skills are better than ours?

Marion
 

It is hard to believe now, but not so long ago that if not the norm was not a rare situation.

At my large city centre secondary school, students were leathered regularly. This was absolutely the norm, from memory I would say this was weekly in my case, and I was on the receiving end absolutely less than the average, some kids got it every day. This from trained, qualified teachers, not every teacher indulged but every student was on the receiving end, it was the norm and not the exception.

I have always been sceptical of the idea that teacher knows best.
 
Marion said:
Many schools across Europe, Finland, included have dedicated career paths for students - academic or technical at age 16, upper second level. Perhaps this would help to explain why their mechanical skills are better than ours?

Marion
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Possibly. Is that a way to improve our education system?
In Germany the usual path is a degree then an apprenticeship or vice versa.
In Ireland we are badly encumbered by educational snobbery so that path is less likely.
 
In my case it was after corporal punishment was banned in schools.
 
Purple said:
Possibly. Is that a way to improve our education system?
In Germany the usual path is a degree then an apprenticeship or vice versa.
In Ireland we are badly encumbered by educational snobbery so that path is less likely.
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I'd agree about the snobbery on technical skills, but also the German school year = 188 days. And yes I'll keep harping on about it - because it seems to be an unrecognised problem.

We're asking Irish students to learn 12% more per week than their European counterparts. I doubt any expert in education would say it's better for children to try to learn the same amount in less days.

Bright students from poorer families don't get to go to France or the Gaeltacht for language immersion, they get an extra month to be fully distracted from education. It's not in the least unusual for bright but less well off first years to be passed out by their better off but more average peers by leaving cert.

For fortunate Irish students their learning year is as long as their European counterparts but here the extra weeks are funded by their parents. The shorter the school year the bigger the advantage to children of parents who can afford to fund extra education.
 
Has any poster from the education sector got an opinion on ashambles comments?
 

I'll try to dig out the reference later, but I read something very interesting before about precisely this. Students from rich & poor backgrounds were monitored and both were found to progress at roughly the same rate during the school year. But it was what happened during the summer holidays that caused the biggest change. When the school year re-started the following year, the kids from wealthy backgrounds had continued to progress during the summer and were thus up a level again from kids from poorer families. This kept happening each year. So, for this reason, a longer school year should be looked into.
 
Date today in the Irish Times about the value of Public Service Pensions.
It shows that the open market value of a Hospital Consultant's pension is €3,701,705. That of an average Teacher is €1,447,466, a Garda is €1,799,454 and a senior Public Servant is €2,126,285> Of course Enda tops the scale with a pension worth €5,168,875.
I presume the Loony Left, the Shinners, and the rest of the basket of deplorables will be up in arms (metaphorically only in the case of the Shinners) over this and demand that they all be cut.
 

I can't remember who "coined" it but someone said a few years ago that in the future, in Ireland, there will be a pensions apartheid where those in the public sector will enjoy retirement at the expense of those in the private sector. Given the security of tenure in the PS as well as being paid more, it's inconceivable to me why the pensions are as gold plated. In fact, it could be argued that due to security of tenure and higher wages, PS employees should fund their own pensions!
 
Firefly said:
In fact, it could be argued that due to security of tenure and higher wages, PS employees should fund their own pensions!
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Everyone should fund their own pension. The State can contribute with the individual topping it up.
 

And you telling us it was the lower paid worker who got back more than they paid in
 
Purple said:
Everyone should fund their own pension. The State can contribute with the individual topping it up.
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I think so. If the state converted all the defined benefits to defined contributions and matched employee contributions upto 7 or 8 % (just like in most large private organisations) that would be great - it would immediately draw a line under our liability as a country into the future.
 
jjm2016 said:
And you telling us it was the lower paid worker who got back more than they paid in
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The total of all taxes paid by State employees is equal to the pension cost for all retired State employees. In other words they either don't pay any tax or don't contribute anything towards their pension. Either way it's a sweet deal!
Anyway, according to the Comrades in Congress (formerly ICTU) everyone in the Public sector is underpaid.
 
Do the Government NOT pay the 10.75% PRSI Like Employers have to for each employee.I would have expected they have to or it would not be fair to busniess in compitition for some services
 
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jjm2016 said:
Do the Government NOT pay the 10.75% PRSI Like Employers have to for each employee.I would have expected they have to or it would not be fair to busniess in compitition for some services
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Nope. They'd just be paying it to themselves.
 
but there cost of payroll would be 10.75% more and the prsi Fund would have a lot more money in it.If what you say is correct everyone else has to pay extra in Prsi to make up the under funding .This is something that needs to be looked at if we are to make any progress in reforming the funding of our social welfare system,all employers should pay the same amount in to the system
 
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Horray !!!

At last a post from jjm that is not only intelligent but intelligible as well.
 
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