Insulation /question

from [broken link removed]
Only the last last three items in this list can meet the 0.27 W/mK requirement, athough 60mm of TW50 from Kingspan in a cavity will give 0.27 - see note below

Cabity Wall Insulation
100mm blown polystyrene, mineral wool, cellulose fibre
0.30
60mm extruded polystyrene insulation
0.40
35mm polyurethane foam board
0.39
35mm phenolic foam board
0.37
Timber frame 150 mm, mineral quilt
0.25
Timber frame 140mm, cellulose fibre
0.19
Safewarm home construction
0.31

Note the above take no account of building volume, area of heat loss elements or air tightness as described by sydthebeat.

Excellent guide here [broken link removed]

If 60 mm of Kingspan does the job then insulation regulations havent changed that much in the last three three years...??
 
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, even the professionals dont know the bloody law...

taydo....
show him this:
[broken link removed]

point him towards paragraph 7 (1)..... which states

7. (1) A person who commissions the construction of a building of a class referred to in subparagraph (a) or (b) of paragraph (4) construction of which commences on or after such date specified for that class in the said subparagraphs shall, before such building is occupied for the first time, secure a BER certificate (in the form prescribed by the First Schedule or Second Schedule to these Regulations, as appropriate) and advisory report in relation to the building and shall produce a printed copy of such BER certificate and advisory report to the building control authority in whose functional area the building is situated, on demand being made by that authority for its production.

(5) The provisions of subparagraphs (a) and (b) of paragraph (4) shall not apply to the following buildings –
(a) a new dwelling for which planning permission was applied for or a planning notice was published on or before 31 December 2006 , and where substantial work is completed by 30 June 2008;




[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]I have bolded up the relevant wording.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]To be honest, it doesnt fill me with much confidence that your 'engineer' isnt up to speed with a law thats in place now nearly 2 years!![/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Edit: corrected operative dates[/FONT][/FONT]



I'd say the engineer is right - speaking realistically.

I built three years ago. No one from officialdom ever came and inspected the insulation, the wiring done, or indeed anything to do with the building quality. I suspect that will not change so in effect the 1st inspection for compliance with new insulation standards will come when the house is going to be sold.
 
I'd say the engineer is right - speaking realistically.

I built three years ago. No one from officialdom ever came and inspected the insulation, the wiring done, or indeed anything to do with the building quality. I suspect that will not change so in effect the 1st inspection for compliance with new insulation standards will come when the house is going to be sold.

did you not have to get your build certified?
 
Insulation Experts - can I have your opinion.

This is the spec of insulation I'm thinking of going for in my timber frame and I'd like your views.

External: 150mm Rockwool Insulation fitted between external studs (400mm centres)
with 25mm of kingspan insulation fitted across studs to counter thermal bridging.


Sloped Ceilings: 150mm Metac Insulation fitted between external roof joists (400mm centres) with 25mm of kingspan insulation fitted across studs



Attic: 150mm glass wool between first floor and attic space for acoustic and thermal barrier. 150mm Metac Insulation fitted between external roof joists (400mm centres)
with 25mm of kingspan insulation fitted across joists. And gables fitted with 150mm Rockwool with 25mm of kingspan insulation fitted across studs.

Floor: 100mm Kingspan



What U value (give or take) do you think I can get with the above spec?

Thanks in advance
 
Taydo,

The ref that sydthebeat posted regarding "the building being substantially complete by 30th June 2008" is for planning that was applied for planning before 1st January 2007.

Any house that applied for planning after 1st January 2007 requires a BER cert and had to comply with TGD 2005.

If the property is not substantially completed by 30th June 2008, the TGD 2007 will apply.
So you will have to check when planning was applied for to see what level of compliance you need.
 
Taydo,

The ref that sydthebeat posted regarding "the building being substantially complete by 30th June 2008" is for planning that was applied for planning before 1st January 2007.

Any house that applied for planning after 1st January 2007 requires a BER cert and had to comply with TGD 2005.

If the property is not substantially completed by 30th June 2008, the TGD 2007 will apply.
So you will have to check when planning was applied for to see what level of compliance you need.



we have to keep BER and TGD L separate for clarity:

Part L
2007 applies if the dwelling was applied for permission after 1st July 2008
and if not substantially complete by 1st July 2009
2005 applies otherwise

BER
This is applicable to all dwellings applied for permission after 1st july 2007, or, if applied for permission before that date, not substantially complete by 30 June 2008
 
we have to keep BER and TGD L separate for clarity:

Part L
2007 applies if the dwelling was applied for permission after 1st July 2008
and if not substantially complete by 1st July 2009
2005 applies otherwise
Should this not be:

2007 applies if the dwelling was applied for permission after 1st July 2008

OR

if permission was applied for before the 1st of July 2008 AND the dwelling is NOT substantially complete by 1st July 2009

2005 applies otherwise
 
Should this not be:

2007 applies if the dwelling was applied for permission after 1st July 2008

OR

if permission was applied for before the 1st of July 2008 AND the dwelling is NOT substantially complete by 1st July 2009

2005 applies otherwise

well, its the same thing really...

it was just a way of saying that every dwelling not substantially complete by 1st july 2009 needs to comply with 2007 part L


But you are more correct in your wording
 
did you not have to get your build certified?

Yes. But its 6 quick onsite chats with people that I appoint and pay. No measuring tapes were produced. Its almost self certification. Hardly strigent ?
You need someone from officialdom doing it as they do in the North.
 
Yes. But its 6 quick onsite chats with people that I appoint and pay. No measuring tapes were produced. Its almost self certification. Hardly strigent ?
You need someone from officialdom doing it as they do in the North.

I completely agree with you... the system we have done here is terrible..
Some building controls sections view visits 10-15% of new builds to be a success!!!! insane!!

Although im a certifier, i know of some 'cowboys' who are able to do this just by providing their own Pi insurance.

The reason i was asking about your certification is because the certifier is the one who takes responsibility that the work is done in accordance to building regs.... this includes structure, ventilation, hygiene, fire, energy conservation, materials, wporkmanship, access etc etc...

The wiring should be signed off by a registered electrician RECI member, before ESB will connect, so thats certified..

yes, it is 'self-certification' to a degree... a lot of it depends on professional conduct and reputation.
 
These transitional arrangements can be confusing. Iam trying to these these clear in my own head, as well.

The OP said that planning was applied for after 1st January 2007. So a BER cert is required. If we know that the building was substantially complete by 30th of June 2008, then the 2005 Regs apply.

Is my summary right?
 
These transitional arrangements can be confusing. Iam trying to these these clear in my own head, as well.

The OP said that planning was applied for after 1st January 2007. So a BER cert is required. If we know that the building was substantially complete by 30th of June 2008, then the 2005 Regs apply.

Is my summary right?

technically yes,... but just to confuse...

say the application was made 2 jan 2007....
the OP has until 30 june 2009 to get substantially complete before 2007 regs kick in.
 
sydthebeat,

I know you post regularly in regard to Ber !

Was the 30th June 2008 deadline extended for a year until 2009, before 2007 Regs kick in.

I am assessing a number of 07/early 08 planning applications. These have until June 09 before 2007 Regs kick in ?
 
sydthebeat,

I know you post regularly in regard to Ber !

Was the 30th June 2008 deadline extended for a year until 2009, before 2007 Regs kick in.

I am assessing a number of 07/early 08 planning applications. These have until June 09 before 2007 Regs kick in ?

Basically, YES..... if they applied for permission before 1st july 2008.. they have until 30 june 2009 to have the dwelling substantially complete before 2007 regs kick in....

joe...
you need to differentiate between part L and BER.

The last date for every house to be exempt from BERs (applied for before 1st jan 2007) was 30 june 2008. any house not substantially complete by that date requires a BER...

any house not substantially complete before 30 june 2009 is required to comply with 2007 part L.
 
Thanks sydthebeat for the clarification. I did not know the different dates between Part L and BER.

Could I ask you about the glut of unsold new houses across the country. While many of them are fully completed, will they require a BER when they are sold next year. Some houses in my estate were built under a 2003 permission. What will they be assesed under next January. New build or existing ?
 
Thanks sydthebeat for the clarification. I did not know the different dates between Part L and BER.

Could I ask you about the glut of unsold new houses across the country. While many of them are fully completed, will they require a BER when they are sold next year. Some houses in my estate were built under a 2003 permission. What will they be assesed under next January. New build or existing ?


Yes they will.....

a BER is required on any dwelling 'offered for sale or rent' after 01 - 01 -09

they will be assessed as existing dwellings...
 
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