Increase rent ' officially' but effectively not really.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Leo said:
Wasn't the suggestion to increase the rent to X but charge the an amount less than that? If there is an agreement with the tenant that they pay Y, then Y is the rent, not some other figure that better suits your purpose.
Click to expand...
Nope the proposition is that you charge the rent & it is paid in the correct way and allow for a rent holiday at appropriate times of the year.
 
DannyBoyD said:
How will the RTB get involved here? Tenant brings a claim to object to getting a rent holiday?
Click to expand...
Tenant moves out. A new tenant moves in who happens to know or be contacted by the old tenant for some particular reason. They talk and it emerges that the new person is paying substantially more to you every month than the old one did. They have you over a barrel.
 
Leo said:
In exactly the same way as they might get involved in any dispute over rent being charged to future tenants. Unlikely, but problematic if it arises.

The RTB guidance and the Residential Tenancies Act is clear that the actual rent should be declared, going through a rent review and submitting the required documentation that deliberately misstates the rent greed with the tenant is never a good look. Will you get away with it? Probably, but that's the case with many offences.
Click to expand...
How would the rtb documents be mis-stating the rent if the landlord correctly calculated and registered any increased rent.
If a tenant paid that amount and a landlord wanted to give a goodwill refund in cash every month, how would that be an offense? Where is that prohibited in the RTA legislation?
Reading some posts concerning the powers or role of the rtb makes it sound like they are a secret service watching and monitoring every interaction between landlords and tenants.
 
T McGibney said:
A new tenant moves in who happens to know or be contacted by the old tenant for some particular reason. They talk and it emerges that the new person is paying substantially more to you every month than the old one did. They have you over a barrel.
Click to expand...
All highly unlikely.

And then they would have to take the active step of going to the RTB.

The typical tenant has maybe 1% of the knowledge of tenancy law than the commenters on this thread.

It’s a non-zero but trivial probability.
 
I would just increase the rent 8%. Any non-standard arrangement is likely to cause problems because the tenant might refuse an increase at a later date and go RTB route if you ask them to leave, RTB will not be on your side and will likely revise rent down to the previous 'effective rent' and let tenant stay on lower rent. Personally, I'd get out/sell anything in an RPZ, leave it to institutional investors that can afford to leave places empty to reset to 'market rent'.
 
The other thing to bear in mind for the OP (and I'm not a HAP expert); if you increase rent by 8%, then how much of that will HAP take up & how much will tenant have to carry? might not be as onerous as you think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: nbc
RonnieShinbal88 said:
I would just increase the rent 8%. Any non-standard arrangement is likely to cause problems because the tenant might refuse an increase at a later date and go RTB route if you ask them to leave, RTB will not be on your side and will likely revise rent down to the previous 'effective rent' and let tenant stay on lower rent. Personally, I'd get out/sell anything in an RPZ, leave it to institutional investors that can afford to leave places empty to reset to 'market rent'.
Click to expand...

But it wouldn't be a non-standard agreement. If a tenant paid 100% of the increased rent and a landlord gave a cash goodwill gesture, how would the rtb even be involved in that? Small gifts between people are perfectly legal afaik.
 
bipped said:
But it wouldn't be a non-standard agreement. If a tenant paid 100% of the increased rent and a landlord gave a cash goodwill gesture, how would the rtb even be involved in that? Small gifts between people are perfectly legal afaik.
Click to expand...
The RTB would get involved later when you try to actually increase the rent and the tenant refuses to pay the increase. When you go to the RTB to get them out, the tenant claims you have a long standing agreement about the 'real rent'. RTB starts an investigation, that might drag on forever. I suspect that the RTBs remit is to keep tenants in-situe for as long as possible, to keep pressure off other state bodies.

If the tenant never does this, I agree small gifts are fine and there is no risk, if you never want to increase the rent again also it might be fine.
 
ClubMan said:
I'm sure that the RTB might beg to differ...

Setting Rent and Rent Reviews in a RPZ | Residential Tenancies Board

RTB operates Ireland's National Tenancy Register and resolving disputes between Landlords, tenants and third parties. Governed by residential Tenancies Act 2004. View more information on landlords and tenancies.
www.rtb.ie www.rtb.ie

I'm amazed at some of the suggestions being made in this thread and being allowed to stand given Askaboutmoney's intolerance of stuff like tax evasion, law breaking etc.
Click to expand...
We're allowed to discuss how to arrange things surely. I give a rent rebate every x-mas.
 
Leo said:
In exactly the same way as they might get involved in any dispute over rent being charged to future tenants. Unlikely, but problematic if it arises.

The RTB guidance and the Residential Tenancies Act is clear that the actual rent should be declared, going through a rent review and submitting the required documentation that deliberately misstates the rent greed with the tenant is never a good look. Will you get away with it? Probably, but that's the case with many offences.
Click to expand...
The problem is there will be a trail with revenue. But I cannot see a tenant making an RTB claim. I wouldn't like to be there if that happens. Having said that no tenant would do this because then they'd be in trouble themselves with HAP.
 
Personally, I would just increase the rent following the rules. She has been lucky you haven't for the past 4 years... I would not take a risk/chance. Buy her a Xmas voucher.
 
bipped said:
How would the rtb documents be mis-stating the rent if the landlord correctly calculated and registered any increased rent.
Click to expand...
If the landlord does not intend to collect the rent as stated on the form, via a rent holiday or any other mechanism agreed with the tenant, they are making a false declaration.
 
DannyBoyD said:
But you dont increase the rent for new tenant.

You've applied the correct increases at the appropriate rent review intervals and continue to do so.
Click to expand...
I meant for the existing tenant, if they are there long term at some point you will have to actually increase the rent. So you keep increasing 2% on paper according to regulations, in 5 years time the RTB rent is actually up 18% on today. How do you decide a fair increase with the tenant as to what they pay under the side deal and what if they dispute that? The body for the dispute is the RTB.
 
nbc said:
I have a property where the rent hasn't increased in 4 years.
She's a single mum with 2 children and a very nice person and also a dream tenant. She receives HAP so pays some herself and rest from the state.
I didn't want to increase rent over the years because of above. My concern now is that if she moved out ( unlikely) at some stage Id be stuck with current rent. Simple question- am I allowed to increase the rent by the max allowable ( I checked on the website and its 8%) and declare this on RTB but just ask her to continue paying the old rent or is this fraud?
Cheers
NBC
Click to expand...
You've forgotten one very small, but important point. The vast majority of the rent increase will be paid by HAP. Your tenant might not have to pay any more or much more to HAP. Let's say she's to pay an extra tenner a month. That's nothing. But if it's a lot to her, then you give her an x-mas gift of 150 Euro.

One thing for sure, I will never ever be nice to tenants about increasing rent if I go back into the business. Got well and truly burnt.

Bear in mind when SF get in they plan on screwing us landlords, so best to hike up the rent to the max now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top