Immigration policy

Immigration/Racism

This is going slightly off topic but...

> In Malaysia (a predominately muslim/asian culture) I was required to have a visa/work permit...fair enough. Later I met and married a Malaysian girl. I do not have the right to apply for Malaysian citizenship. Indeed, she actually loses her Malaysian nationality through marriage to a foreigner!

Are you sure that this is true? First of all while there may be no automatic right to citizenship or to apply for same on the grounds of marriage it seems that one could do so on the basis of naturalisation if applicable

www.lawyerment.com.my/lib...00-7.shtml

(Note the links at the bottom each article pointing to previous/next pages).

Secondly I don't see anything that says that a Malaysian person marring a non citizen loses their citizenship...

Oddly enough this link suggests that specific rules apply to a non Malaysian WOMAN marrying a male Malaysian citizen although not necessarily if the roles were reversed:

[broken link removed]

As far as I can see Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship and will revoke citizenship if a Malaysian citizen claims citizenship in another country. As far as I know this is not unusual and many countries don't allow dual citizenship.

> I love Malaysia, the people and the country, but it is an inherently RACIST country in its immigration policies

If you can point to authoritative information that backs up your claims about how Malaysian immigration and citizenship laws operate and how they you deem them to be racist then I'd be very interested. Thanks.
 
Immigration in Malaysia

"...no automatic right to citizenship or to apply for same on the grounds of marriage.."

Correct, and that is different from the Irish rules. A Malaysian marrying an Irish person can apply for and be granted Irish citizenship. That is inequitous to the Irish partner.

"..one could do so on the basis of naturalisation if applicable.."

Correct...but you need to be there for 10-12 years! In Ireland the figure is 3 years. And its one thing to be allowed apply, but another to be granted it. I know of white guys who've lived in Malaysia for 20 years, who are married to Malaysian women, who have applied for citizenship, and never heard another thing from the Immigration department, in spite of regular futile attempts to find out whats happening to their application. I never heard of any white man who has ever managed to get Malaysian citizenship (and I visit the country regularly). I'd love to know different.
All whites in Malaysia exist on temporary (3 month) visas, thats it.

I know many, many Indians and other Asians who have Malaysian citizenship through marriage, or naturalisation...and I can tell you it does not take them 10-12 years to get it.

"Secondly I don't see anything that says that a Malaysian person marring a non citizen loses their citizenship...Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship and will revoke citizenship if a Malaysian citizen claims citizenship in another country."

Correct. That is the situation that pertains to us. If she claims her Irish passport she loses her Malaysian one. Why should Malaysia not accept her dual citizenship if Ireland recognises it?

"Oddly enough this link suggests that specific rules apply to a non Malaysian WOMAN marrying a male Malaysian citizen..."

Correct. They discriminate also on grounds of Gender!
The Malaysian government attitude is...if you are a foreign woman who marries a Malaysian man...you are welcome. If you are a Malaysian women marrying a foreign man...get lost...go to his country, become a foreigner and don't come back! (Imagine her situation if she was to divorce me...she's forced to remain abroad alone!) This is a blatantly sexist policy, but then again that is considered normal in Islamic states.

Of course I can't give you links to their Asian Only policy...it isn't written down publicly. But it exists in the way they discourage applications for citizenship (12 years!) and in the manner which they handle applications (Asians preferred), and the way they discourage Malaysian women from marry foreigners by effectively expelling them from their country of birth and stripping their nationality from them.
 
Immigration in Malaysia

> Of course I can't give you links to their Asian Only policy

So your allegations of racism against the Malaysian system are based on subjective and anecdotal rather than objective and independently verifiable evidence? Fair enough but to me that seems to be quite a prejudicial and ignorant point of view regardless of your first hand experience with the country. So too, in the absence of evidence, is your lumping of all "Islamic" states into one category. In any case, whatever about Islam being the dominant religion in Malaysia, the country is not an Islamic state insofar as it is a constitutional monarchy with a judicial system based on English common law (i.e. not based on Sharia or Islamic law as might befit a country described as "Islamic").

[broken link removed]
 
Malaysia

My wife is Malaysian, but Chinese by ethnicity.
She will inform you that its not the rules that matter, but rather who you know.

In the late 70's there was near civil war in Malaysia because the Chinese minority (30%) were so much more succesful in business that the lazy Malays (60%) were effectively losing control of the economy. Their answer was a POGROM against the Christian/Buddhist non 'BumiPutra' Chinese.

Thanks to a few wise men the civil war was cut short, and a regime of positive discrimnination (in favour of the majority!) was introduced.

Since then, if you are Bumi (i.e. a Muslim) you have preferential mortgage rates, preferential housing prices, preferential business rules, land purchase restrictions on non Bumi nationals, University place quotas etc etc.

Those rules were meant to expire after 2000, but are still in place in place!

It is a discriminatory society, no excuses!
 
racism

anyone else think this guy matsallah sounds a lot like elcid?
 
Immigration

Hi Wise One.
Who is elcid? I've never hear of him.

Perhaps you should consider addressing those points instead of diverting the debate into personal attacks?

As an Irish person I'm really interested in hearing your response to those points.

I'm actually not interested in your personal attacks.

Lets hear it.
Why is Ireland more racist than asian Malaysia?
 
Truth

Some people hate truth.
Especially when it counters their own biased arguments.

Some facts:







All quotes from en.wikipedia.org
 
> Some people hate truth. Especially when it counters their own biased arguments.

Not at all. I merely asked you to post some objective evidence for your claims about the Malaysian immigration and naturalisation system which I don't think is unreasonable when extreme claims are made. The ones that you have posted are very interesting and I'm working my way through them now. However, while this is an interesting specific case of an immigration system allegedly being racist or ethnically biased it is only one example and doesn't necessarily prove anything in the context of the original question other than that an immigration CAN indeed be racially or ethnically biased. Other than that, so what? Are you saying that other countries should necessarily counter such systems by adopting a similar approach, if even only on a reciprocal basis?
 
> Why is Ireland more racist than asian Malaysia?

Who claimed that and on what basis?

I thought that this discussion was supposed to be about whether or not immigration systems were (or could be?) discriminatory (yes, implicitly as established earlier) or racially/ethnically biased (potentially). Other than that what is there to say on the matter?
 
As a moderator I just want to draw attention to the fact that this topic contains two examples of two ostensibly different users posting from the same IP address which suggests that two individuals are posting under different identities for reasons that are not immediately obvious. Note that this has also happened in the past with topics dealing with contentious subject matter usually necessitating their closure on the basis of abuse of the system.
 
Immigration

Dear Whoever...
The point I'm making is that other countries (including Asian ones) apply immigration/passport controls, not just to foreigners, but to their own nationals, which are demonstrably racist in their nature. Such countries need to be educated about the illegitimacy of these practices and the best way to do it is by applying similiar controls against their nationals entering this country. I say that as someone who has a Malaysian wife. She agrees because she feels its the only way to highlight the discrimination against her (ethnically Chinese) countrymen.

We should not be ashamed to use the same methods.

Mtual respect works best.