"If crypto is not the answer to our money problems, what is?" Good FT article

LosLobos said:
I have been involved in a transaction where crypto was exchanged as a means of payment costing tens of thousands only. Regular payment via a high-street institution would have cost about 250,000 dollars in fees.
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Now that is bull. Let’s say the amount of the transfer was $100m. That would need two cultists whose primary currency is bitcoin, one having $100m worth of bitcoin available and the other happy to hold that amount. Otherwise it involves fiat to crypto and/or followed by crypto to fiat and no way that makes economic sense.
 
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@tecate you tell us that the IMF won’t lend to Argentina if they do a Bukele. The cult interpretation of this is that the devil that is the IMF is afraid of the bitcoin messiah. The rest of us know it is because the IMF are scared stiff that lending to a Bukele is throwing money down the drain.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Now that is bull. Let’s say the amount of the transfer was $100m. That would need two cultists whose primary currency is bitcoin, one having $100m worth of bitcoin available and the other happy to hold that amount. Otherwise it involves fiat to crypto and/or followed by crypto to fiat and no way that makes economic sense.
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Happy to see you know my business more than me. (Sum was in excess of 100m.)
 
LosLobos said:
Happy to see you know my business more than me. (Sum was in excess of 100m.)
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Well, my first guess was 10bps but I didn't want to overstate my point so I went for 25bps. And my point was that I am sure bitcoin would be cheaper IF A had $100m+ worth of btc hanging around (earning nothing) and B was happy to hold $100m+ worth of btc.
Sorry to spoil your happiness but I don't know your business at all. Or perhaps you mean that even that is more than you know about your business. :confused:
 
Sunny said:
Read your posts over the past couple of years. Every positive article from crypto media you have linked and used as evidence of some sort of movement. You have portrayed and dismissed every single bit of bad news as some some sort of scaremongering by people who don't understand.
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You'll find that I've linked much more to main stream media than crypto media. Other than that, I've linked to what I would have seen as important developments in the space. Lets take the one that you brought up - MicroStrategy. You can hold whatever opinion you want about MicroStrategy's Bitcoin venture but whatever that opinion is, the development is an important one - and worthy of discussion.

As for providing my opinion on developments or takes, whether positive or negative - I would have thought that's the whole point of a discussion board. I would have also thought that it provides an opportunity because in an open discussion you can express whatever opinion or take that you want in response.

I already asked you what post you can point to where you've acknowledged anything positive about Bitcoin and I'm still waiting on an answer on that. Meanwhile, despite what you say above, I can point to a whole host of acknowledgements of Bitcoin shortcomings.

Sunny said:
Just not sure why you have spent so much of your life over the past couple of years trying to convince others on this site.
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I have zero interest in convincing you of anything relative to bitcoin/crypto. In the first couple of years, I did have a concern that the view expressed on the subject on AAM was totally one-sided and with that, inaccurate and misleading.

So I thought that it would be interesting to provide the counter view - and see how the discussion and thinking on the subject would develop. I also thought I could have my own thesis on the subject challenged - and I could learn myself if any of my thoughts on the subject were wayward. I have zero interest in convincing you of anything - and I would add that in discussing any subject - whether crypto or anything else - the goal should not be to develop an echo chamber but to continually have your thoughts/beliefs/understanding on a subject challenged.

Sunny said:
I think that's why @Duke of Marmalade refers to it as a cult.
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I don't believe that having a strong interest and views on something means that someone should then be labelled as belonging to a cult. As an example, I think that time spent on discussing politics is for the most part a waste of time and energy. There are people that put all of their energies into that - I wouldn't tell them they should stop and I wouldn't call their strong interest in that as being cult-like.


Sunny said:
Take a break. I am sure you are super intelligent so go off and enjoy watching the rest of us livie in the dark ages....
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I'm not sure if you're conscious of it or not, but effectively you're looking to create an echo chamber. At least its by invitation - that's an improvement on the creation of an echo chamber on a subject via censorship. However, it's still the antithesis of what a discussion board should be about. Instead of welcoming an opposing view, you want to silence it. Nobody learns anything or advances anything in an echo chamber.


Duke of Marmalade said:
@tecate you tell us that the IMF won’t lend to Argentina if they do a Bukele. The cult interpretation of this is that the devil that is the IMF is afraid of the bitcoin messiah. The rest of us know it is because the IMF are scared stiff that lending to a Bukele is throwing money down the drain.
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So the IMF has been knees deep in the developing world for an age. What has it achieved Duke? - in those developing countries?

As regards Bukele 'throwing money down the drain', in the breakdown of finances at a national level, its not in any way a significant amount - certainly not to the extent that the IMF would be bothered mentioning it.
 
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tecate said:
So the IMF has been knees deep in the developing world for an age. What has it achieved Duke? - in those developing countries?
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You see, that's what I mean by cult. It is not just that bitcoin is the best thing since sliced bread. It is also about Central Bankers, IMFs, World Banks etc. being part of an axis of evil.
We're talking Argentina here. If the IMF are such a malevolent force in developing countries, they are entirely free to spurn their involvement and go the Bukele route.
The troika of the IMF, the ECB and the EC saved Ireland from disaster. So these are definitely not on my dartboard of villains.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
You see, that's what I mean by cult. It is not just that bitcoin is the best thing since sliced bread. It is also about Central Bankers, IMFs, World Banks etc. being part of an axis of evil.
We're talking Argentina here. If the IMF are such a malevolent force in developing countries, they are entirely free to spurn their involvement and go the Bukele route.
The troika of the IMF, the ECB and the EU saved Ireland from disaster. So these are definitely not on my dartboard of villains.
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You are the one using emotive language like 'axis of evil', the 'devil', 'bitcoin messiah', etc. I asked you a simple matter of fact question. That's perfectly reasonable. And yet, you are applying the 'cult' labelling on the basis of that enquiry.

So Ireland isn't a developing nation. In the developing world, what are the IMFs stand out successes?
 
It's beyond hilarious whats going on the last few days lots of people coming to the world and discovering for the first time the concepts of assets, liabilities, equity & collateral...counterparty credit risk......as well as supposedly unrelated related party chicanery...........its hilarious if it weren't for naive innocent folks taken in by the digital asset neoloibralism technobabble getting hurt........

Like all schemes - eventually you run out of idiots
 
letitroll said:
It's beyond hilarious whats going on the last few days lots of people coming to the world and discovering for the first time the concepts of assets, liabilities, equity & collateral...counterparty credit risk......as well as supposedly unrelated related party chicanery...........its hilarious if it weren't for naive innocent folks taken in by the digital asset neoloibralism technobabble getting hurt........

Like all schemes - eventually you run out of idiots
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What has been playing out this week (and will continue to play out over the next few weeks) has nothing to do with bitcoin.
 
tecate said:
What has been playing out this week (and will continue to play out over the next few weeks) has nothing to do with bitcoin.
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:D (sorry is the most extreme laugh emoji I could find, what would more appropriate would be an emoji with his sides ripping open with laughter)
 
tecate said:
In the developing world, what are the IMFs stand out successes?
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I sourced this in Wiki.
Wiki said:
Apart from Cuba, the other UN states that do not belong to the IMF are Liechtenstein, Monaco and North Korea.
Any country may apply to be a part of the IMF.
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I am not as expert as you on the dealings of the IMF. It looks to me like a voluntary concern. A lot of developing countries seem to have no difficulty in volunteering for its wickedness. The only exceptions are those developing countries, Monaco and Liechtenstein (and of course the usual basket cases of Cuba and NK.)
But the credo of the cult must hold that the IMF are oppressors of the underdog.
 
letitroll said:
:D (sorry is the most extreme laugh emoji I could find, what would more appropriate would be an emoji with his sides ripping open with laughter)
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Thanks for that additional descriptive detail @letitroll :D .
There are two groups within the over-arching crypto space that feel validated in what they've been advocating over the duration:
1. Bitcoin centric folks - who believe in decentralized self custody and that most or all other crypto is vapourware.
2. Ethereum-centric defi projects who's decentralized platforms and decentralized exchanges can't go the way of FTX.

FTX was centralized and the centralized aspects of crypto have brought all of the wall street chicanery with them. You may wish to conflate it all together but that's an error. Bitcoin has not died - far from it. Decentralized tech has not died - it will continue to be developed. The overarching crypto market is a train wreck right now - but this too will pass. See you in 2030. :cool:
Duke of Marmalade said:
I sourced this in Wiki.

I am not as expert as you on the dealings of the IMF. It looks to me like a voluntary concern. A lot of developing countries seem to have no difficulty in volunteering for its wickedness. The only exceptions are those developing countries, Monaco and Liechtenstein (and of course the usual basket cases of Cuba and NK.)
But the credo of the cult must hold that the IMF are oppressors of the underdog.
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So that doesn't answer the question I put to you...which was what has the IMF achieved in the developing world?
 
tecate said:
So that doesn't answer the question I put to you...which was what has the IMF achieved in the developing world?
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I am not going to research that. The fact is the cult demonises the IMF. This is not supported by the overwhelming support of the IMF by developing countries.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I am not going to research that. The fact is the cult demonises the IMF. This is not supported by the overwhelming support of the IMF by developing countries.
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That's ok Duke - no pressure. The fact is that you tried to look it up and found nothing. I didn't demonize anything - I asked you a straightforward question.
 
The Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled that the services of a Bitcoin exchange in exchanging Bitcoin for a traditional currency is exempt from VAT on the basis of the ‘currency’ exemption (Skatteverket v David Hedqvist Case C-264/14).
 
LosLobos said:
The Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled that the services of a Bitcoin exchange in exchanging Bitcoin for a traditional currency is exempt from VAT on the basis of the ‘currency’ exemption (Skatteverket v David Hedqvist Case C-264/14).
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Just as @NoRegretsCoyote posted, though with the implication that it meant it wasn’t a currency.
 
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