I feel Hotel took advantage of Minimum spend agreement

[glendale]

Did the minimum spend include the bar takings?

No.

Sorry I read this wrong and thought that the hotel hadn't served all the wine you ordered, but I assume after 9:30 I assume everybody was drinking something else from the bar which is why there were no complaints?

The hotel didn't serve all the wine I ordered. Yes the bar was open as well and thats why it wasn't immediately obvious.

I don't think you'll get anything as you agreed a minimum spend which wasn't reached. I suppose even if the hotel had served all the wine the bar takings would have been lower?

Yes if they had served all the wine the bar takings would of been less.

 

[Bronte]

I don't understand your initial contract, particularly as you say that the bar takings were not included, how was the minimum spend calculated? Could you give some more details please.

 

[glendale]

I don't understand your initial contract, particularly as you say that the bar takings were not included, how was the minimum spend calculated? Could you give some more details please.

Sorry I just realised why you are confused. The agreement was that if our bill came to below a certain level we would have to pay the shortfall as room rental. The bill was to include, a wine reception, a meal and finger food. So I worked out the quantities of the above to just reach the minimum spend.

 

[WaterSprite]

Sorry I just realised why you are confused. The agreement was that if our bill came to below a certain level we would have to pay the shortfall as room rental. The bill was to include, a wine reception, a meal and finger food. So I worked out the quantities of the above to just reach the minimum spend.

Were the additional bar takings (not the wine) not included for calculating the minimum spend?

I, too, am a little confused. I would have imagined that the bar takings should also be included towards the spend.

Sprite

 

[glendale]

Were the additional bar takings (not the wine) not included for calculating the minimum spend?

I, too, am a little confused. I would have imagined that the bar takings should also be included towards the spend.

Sprite

No the bar takings were not part of the agreement about the minimum spend.

 

[JoeB]

Yes, I agree with the original poster that the hotel are at least partially at fault.

The OP had agreed a certain maximum quantity of wine which was to be served, the hotel knew this and were also aware that the OP would have to pay for any wine not consumed. So they should have told him that they intended to cease serving the wine.

I think you should write a detailed letter to the manager, explaining that a reasonable person will come to the conclusion that the hotel deliberately ceased serving wine in order to make more money... that is your allegation and let the hotel respond to it.. they must give a reason as to why they stopped serving well short of the agreed maximum and instead hit you with a large cash bill.

I don't feel they can give a reasonable reason, drunken-ness isn't adequate in my opinion, they may say something like no serving staff available, that's not your problem.

You should either get the wine you have paid for, or a reduction in the price.. I feel the hotel will have to accomadate you or else you go to the small claims court or onto Joe Duffy...

It's a sharp practice by the hotel that is borderline theft IMO....

(This all depends, the OP states the situation as if there was an agreed maximum serve of wine, if this is so then the hotel should have served the maximum with no double checking etc, they should definitely have informed the OP on the night if they intended to change the rules or stop serving well short of the agreed amount.)

Cheers
Joe

 

[WaterSprite]

No the bar takings were not part of the agreement about the minimum spend.

Ah. I see the problem so.

So people were to be offered wine (at a cost) until the wine sales reached the minimum spend? I'd imagine then that the hotel should have offered wine as a first option to everyone and certainly should not have stopped making wine available to people. And if people didn't want wine (knowing that it was available but choosing to drink something else deliberately), then the intention was that this would not go towards the minimum spend?

You didn't pre-purchase the wine though, correct? The people attending the event were supposed to purchase the wine during the course of the evening?

If the hotel says that they served wine all night, then I'd ask them to see receipts to prove this. It becomes more difficult if they did indeed sell *some* wine later in the evening, but just didn't offer it as a first choice to people.

I'd absolutely be asking for the shortfall in the wine to be given to you.

(Also - sorry, I just realised that someone else had asked the same Q about the bar takings.)

It strikes be as an extraordinary model for the hotel to use (wine only gets credited to the minimum spend), although it certainly benefits them. I presume the contract doesn't say that the hotel was obliged to serve wine until the limit was reached? So the question becomes whether there is an implied duty on the hotel to use reasonable efforts to serve wine as the preferred beverage, and that's certainly the position I'd be taking with the hotel.

I don't see why the Small Claims Court wouldn't be the place to go. See [broken link removed] for the citizen's information blurb on consumer rights, which has some useful phrases that you can put into an official letter (e.g.
"If you have a contract with a service supplier you can expect that:...

• The service will be provided with proper care and diligence...")

I'd write to the hotel manager and anyone else higher up (e.g. if the hotel is a group, write to the CEO) and say that:
- you booked the event based on a min spend on wine
- hotel should have used all reasonable efforts to ensure that wine was sold in preference to other beverages
- the hotel didn't use those reasonable efforts
- you'll be taking them to the SCC if you don't get satisfaction (obviously decide what you want here; the unused wine? A refund of all or a portion of the shortfall?)
-I'd ask them for copies of the receipts to show the spend during the night, assuming that the receipts show the breakdown of what drink was ordered.
- throw in various applicable references to the Consumer Rights Acts etc.
- give them a reasonable time (a week?) to respond, else you're off to the SCC
- if they are a member of an approved body (e.g. Failte Ireland), you'll be complaining to them too. Also, you'll be complaining to the National Consumer Agency

Have someone else read the letter too so that a person who didn't know the story could understand the issue as it appears quite complicated to describe. They need to take this first letter seriously. Feel free to post a draft here and I'm sure the bods at AAM will be happy to review it.

Sprite

p.s. posted crossed with Joe above but sentiments are similar!

 

[ubiquitous]

Does "a wine reception" mean that wine should be made available to guests all night until a certain quota is consumed?

 

[sse]

Ah right I think I understand this now, I thought the minimum spend included the bar.

It was clearly advantageous for the hotel to stop or reduce serving wine as they were guaranteed the money in any case due to the minimum spend on "food, room and wine" plus the incremental bar takings.

Agree with the advice on writing detailed unemotional letters etc., I think you've got a good case for a complaint, particularly if none of the staff mentioned anything at the time.

I'd also be asking for the cash back rather than overpriced wine.

SSE

 

[glendale]

You didn't pre-purchase the wine though, correct? The people attending the event were supposed to purchase the wine during the course of the evening?

Just to clarify the guests didn't pay for the wine, I was paying for the whole event. They did however have to pay for drinks bought at the bar.

I presume the contract doesn't say that the hotel was obliged to serve wine until the limit was reached? So the question becomes whether there is an implied duty on the hotel to use reasonable efforts to serve wine as the preferred beverage, and that's certainly the position I'd be taking with the hotel.

The contract wasn't explicit about that no. I think the burden was on the hotel to make a reasonable effort to serve the wine through the course of the evening. There is something of a moral hazard as it isn't in their best finacial interest to do so however you should be able to trust a well known hotel in this regard.

I don't see why the Small Claims Court wouldn't be the place to go. See [broken link removed] for the citizen's information blurb on consumer rights, which has some useful phrases that you can put into an official letter (e.g.
"If you have a contract with a service supplier you can expect that:...

• The service will be provided with proper care and diligence...")

I'd write to the hotel manager and anyone else higher up (e.g. if the hotel is a group, write to the CEO) and say that:
- you booked the event based on a min spend on wine
- hotel should have used all reasonable efforts to ensure that wine was sold in preference to other beverages
- the hotel didn't use those reasonable efforts
- you'll be taking them to the SCC if you don't get satisfaction (obviously decide what you want here; the unused wine? A refund of all or a portion of the shortfall?)
-I'd ask them for copies of the receipts to show the spend during the night, assuming that the receipts show the breakdown of what drink was ordered.
- throw in various applicable references to the Consumer Rights Acts etc.
- give them a reasonable time (a week?) to respond, else you're off to the SCC
- if they are a member of an approved body (e.g. Failte Ireland), you'll be complaining to them too. Also, you'll be complaining to the National Consumer Agency

I have had some discussion with the hotel, they are to get back in the next day or two. If I'm still no satisfied I will follow your advise above.

 

[glendale]

I'd also be asking for the cash back rather than overpriced wine.

Is this reasonable seeing as I consented to a minimum spend? If I got cash back I wouldn't have met this.

 

[sse]

Well it's up to you but I assume the hotel asked you to pay for the shortfall in cash. You'll be paying a massive markup for the wine in the hotel - I'd be arguing that the wine isn't much use to me now as I clearly wanted it served to my guests during the evening which the hotel failed to do and that this is the basis of your complaint.

SSE

 

[glendale]

Well it's up to you but I assume the hotel asked you to pay for the shortfall in cash. You'll be paying a massive markup for the wine in the hotel - I'd be arguing that the wine isn't much use to me now as I clearly wanted it served to my guests during the evening which the hotel failed to do and that this is the basis of your complaint.

You might have a point.
Thanks all for the very useful comments.

 

[sam h]

I would agree that you should look for the cash as the wine will be of little use & costly.

My understanding is that you effectively "bought" food & "X" numbers of bottles of wine. Therefore, the staff should have continued to offer this wine to your guests until it had run out (and even then they should make it clear that it had run out so you weould have had the option to order more).

There should have been a "event co-ordinator" who should have kept you informed on the status of the food and wine, it's not your job to be checking if the wine has run out or that they have simply stopped serving.

It appears as if they took advantage of the fact that some of your guests went to the bar (will always happen as some people don't drink wine) so the probably decided they will make more profit if the wine is paid for & the people are also going to the bar.

The other side you may want to point out is that you were treating your guests....yet by the stopping serving the wine it would look like you were being "stingy" (you know the type....Auntie Mary whispering to Auntie Joan...."mean", "stingy", "a drop more would have been lovely" !!!)

I think the hotel have been quite underhand about this - would love to know which hotel it is!! I would be looking for the cash back as a minimum!!

 

[glendale]

I would agree that you should look for the cash as the wine will be of little use & costly.

The issue has been resolved to my satisfaction. I have accepted the shortfall in wine - it won't go to waste. I think the key to a complaint like this is to keep escalating the issue until you get satisfaction.
Thanks again to everyone who advised.

 

[tara83]

Glad you got it sorted. It has been my experience from organising events for work that you have to keep a constant eye on everything at hotels. I would also make sure the staff are aware that everything is to be passed by me.

 

[ubiquitous]

Well done. Fwiw, in my opinion the practice of "minimum spend" stinks. It is merely a way to extract money for nothing from the unwary.

 

[sam h]

I have accepted the shortfall in wine - it won't go to waste.

Didn't mean to imply it would go to waste....more the extra mark-up is wasted (hotel price include....storage, cooling, opening & serving...plus they wash up the glasses) so a straight forward offer of the extra wine really leaves you out of pocket.

But at least you got something out of it...once you're happy! Enjoy the vino.