I don't think people understand seriousness of Ireland's problems

R

RMCF

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The last year of watching TV and discussions about our debt has been a real eye-opener, and indeed the last couple of weeks it has started to ramp up again with the impending strikes post-Budget.

Firstly, I appreciate that a lot of the trouble people have is the manner in which the banks and developers appear to have been saved without any repercussions for them. I'd be the 1st to cheer if I seen a few people banged up in jail, believe me.

But we have been seeing figures bandied around for over a year now, and indeed been told over and over how these are steadily getting worse. Yet it appears that not one single group in Irish society sees the need for them to take a hit, and a big hit at that.

We were told for 6 months that we would all have to take the pain, and many people sat on discussion progs and said they would take it. But everyone seems to be getting ready to fight, take to the streets or simply go on strike.

The Gov let public spending get out of control for many years, and it will have no option to reign it back in, and indeed make big cuts too. Private employees suffered this, but did not have the option of taking to the streets - they just had to go to the Benefits Office.

Does Irish society not realise the implications of this country going bust? That would be worse than the cuts that are coming, but many look like they will be happy to send the country into bankruptcy.
 
I find all this talk about public sector strikes sickening. How do they expect the economy to ever recover without cuts. Likewise social welfare spending.

Not sure if people are unaware of risk of national bankruptcy or in denial or what the problem is..
 
I think that the problem is that the Govt is still in place.

So basically the people who let everything get to where it is are now the ones telling us that cuts are needed.

If we had had a general election I think the country would be more willing to take the pain.

Look I think all this talk of strikes is futile - the cuts will come and hopefully we can come out the other side.
 

+1

People find the notion of the government who led us into dire straits being the ones to make the cuts unpalatable. A general election may not solve any practical problems (no matter who wades into this mess right now is going to have their hands full and may make no better a fist of it than the current gang), but it will certainly make people feel that they have a voice.

How would the people go about calling for a general election?
 
DoctorEvil said:
If we had had a general election I think the country would be more willing to take the pain.
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The only problem I have with that is that invariably the people who tell you excatly what cuts they would make aren't the ones who get elected. That's democracy for you.

It seems to me that a party who are completely in the s***ter but won't have to face the electorate for another 3.5 years would be more inclined to make the hard decisions.
 
RMCF said:
Yet it appears that not one single group in Irish society sees the need for them to take a hit, and a big hit at that.
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This is the problem. I'm not trying to defend the union's stance but they are only doing what every other interest group is doing. Saying we need cuts but do it to someone else, not us!
There was someone on the Pat Kenny radio show last week discussing the possibility of cuts in child benefit and you swear the government were planning to throw people's kids on the streets. Even look at the response of minister's Cullen and O'Cuiv to the An Bord Snip report. Basically rubbishing the part that affects their department. Vincent De Paul said yesterday it would be immoral to cut social welfare, yet social welfare is the governments biggest bill.

I aggree with previous comments - this government has no credibility in looking for cuts. In fairness to Lenehin he was not a minister until 2007 but Cowen was Finance minister when a lot of ecnomists think the government's finances got out of control. Where is he now - the top job. It is hard to listen to him say 'We have to get real on spending'.
 
Shawady said:
Vincent De Paul said yesterday it would be immoral to cut social welfare, yet social welfare is the governments biggest bill.
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I wouldn't mind what those well meaning fools say.

I agree with the OP and I agree that it’s hard to listen to Cowen, the man who bent over beside Bertie for all the vested interest groups over the last few years.
I do think that Lenehin is doing a very good lob (within the constraints of real-politic)
 
RMCF said:
Firstly, I appreciate that a lot of the trouble people have is the manner in which the banks and developers appear to have been saved without any repercussions for them.
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When we talk about the banks being 'saved' we need to look at what has happened and we need to look at what is likely to happen. Firstl off, the banks are owned by shareholders. Those shareholders have been almost completely wiped out. So they have not been saved. Of course, deposit holders and bond holders have been saved and I suppose there is some question as to whether the bond holders should have been saved.

Secondly, I don't know if it is ( yet) trus to say that bank management have been saved. We are told that the days of silly bonus and salary levels are to be ended. I think a lot of us have a hard time believing this. A lot of us feel that the management have indeed been 'saved'. I am reserving my opinion on this for at least 12 months. I think we should all do likewise and save our anger unless it becomes clear that it is warranted. It is, after all, still possible that the government - through NAMA - will finally put manners on the bankers.

Thirdly, we are told that developers have been saved. This just isn't true - at least not yet. It is, of course, possible that NAMA will be run in a way that is perceived to be 'soft' on developers. I think that any government which does this will see a huge backlash. The reality is that it is now politically easier to chase, and if necessary sink, developers than it is to somehow rescue them. So I think we should reserve judgment here too.
 


I do hope you never fall on hard times Purple. There again instead of contacting the Vincent de Paul I guess you could eat your words, tasteless though they may be.
 
lightswitch said:
I do hope you never fall on hard times Purple. There again instead of contacting the Vincent de Paul I guess you could eat your words, tasteless though they may be.
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When they are giving Christmas hampers to people earning over €50'000 a year, who have said they don't need them, then they are just that; well meaning fools. There are loads of great people doing great work with the worst off in our country but the VDP's policy of never saying no means that a large part of their resources are wasted.
 
lightswitch said:
I do hope you never fall on hard times Purple. There again instead of contacting the Vincent de Paul I guess you could eat your words, tasteless though they may be.
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I agree. You may not concur with their views on social welfare payments, but they are not 'idiots'. I know people who give up large amounts of their free time to work for the V de P, including visiting people who have fallen on hard times, negotiating with banks for people who cant repay their mortgage, and sourcing santa presents for kids who wouldn't get anything otherwise. I don't see anything idiotic about that.
Also, they do say 'no'. I know of situations where people have been told that the VdeP will not provide expensive gifts for kids for instance.
 
I think the real title of this thread should be I don't think people understand (the) seriousness of Ireland's problems and the linkage between these problems and our voting habits over the last fifteen years.
 
Hey, Fitch have just downgraded Ireland's Sovereign Rating. Good times!

 
Kine said:
Hey, Fitch have just downgraded Ireland's Sovereign Rating. Good times!
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Quote from their press release:

"The Irish government's fiscal consolidation response to date has been impressive with cumulative savings of 5% of GDP implemented in 2009, and a planned further round of major spending cuts expected to be announced in December's budget," said Douglas Renwick, Associate Director in Fitch's Sovereign Group. "In addition, Fitch believes that NAMA is likely to be successful in stabilising and rehabilitating the banking sector, providing both solvency and liquidity support and mitigating pressures on the supply of new credit to industry and households."

As downgrades go, it was quiet a positive one.
 

What you've described there is targetted aid to those who really needed, and there's no doubt VdeP excel in this area.

I think they are being foolish by getting involved in the politics of the broader social welfare situation.

We need general expenditure cuts so that we do not run into a situation where those most in need of help could end up with nothing at all
 

If you are there on the 20th I'll give you the name and address of the person I am talking about.
 
Purple said:
If you are there on the 20th I'll give you the name and address of the person I am talking about.
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Bit unclear on this, but are you just using one example or are you saying that it is general practice in the Vincent de Paul to give hampers to people on good salaries?? Maybe I've picked you up wrong.
 
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