Case study I can pay my mortgage but not my arrears

Thank you all.

I have put numerous proposals to the bank but they have either flat out refused or ignored them. Most times I am just met with a list of what the legal bill will cost if I am to be repossessed or a demand for the arrears.

All customers are assigned to a case manager. These managers don't seem to be at a senior level but the demand letters are sent from senior bankers. If you respond to the senior bankers with your proposal they will revert you back to your case manager. It all seems to be one big circle with no end in sight.

However, I have proposed to the bank to place my arrears into a seperate account to be cleared by the end of the mortgage term loan at whatever cost it takes to clear them. They have not responded to this.
 
Gerry Canning said:
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In this case the Taxpayer will not be picking up the tab.
Ulster/Boi/Start/Ge/Acc/Danske are not (ours).

From looking at what ACC could lose in a Repo/Bankruptcy type situation. I think they would be silly not to properly engage?
Maybe it is just the proper ACC person is not being spoken with?
Am I missing something?
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Hi Gerry,

I spoke to a Solicitor in the past and they also said the same to me. I honestly thought I was doing everything correctly and engaging with the appointed professionals within the bank. Do you have any suggestions on which department within the bank to write too? I have previously suggested suspending all payments to them but they did not seem bothered. My guess is they want me to cease payment all together so they can start legal proceedings.
 
Patrickj;

Send a carefully worded Registered letter to ACC , ask for prompt response.
Tell them you are very concerned that you do not appear to be allowed to try to resolve matters without their threat of legal action.
Tell them you have family who are prepared to offer an appreciable lump sum in full and final settlement on a figure in excss of market value.
You would like to meet a decision maker to discuss this.
As you have k200 from parents(God bless them) I would think you are getting close to getting @ least as much as Acc would get from a Repo or forced sale.

Could your parents move up to say K250?
If you can get K250 Acc will definately end up with more than on a forced sale.

At the end of the day I feel Acc will be pragmatic, it is just very very hard to get a decision maker.

{my guess is they want me to cease payment altogether so they can start
legal}
Probably not so, more likely scenario is this
They consider your account is unsustainable and have therefore decided to move to Repo/Forced Sale. From their knowledge that makes money sense.
They cannot yet know you have k200+ available .
I will be very surprised that when they know that , they may huff&puff but will accept something north of the K200, as it leaves them better off.
Keep me posted and get a good helper, you DO not need an expensive negotiator just a sensible one.

So;
1.Send off the letter.
2. Try and stand a little bit back ,(since this is a personal/stressful time for you) and consider any action carefully.

Finally DO not feel bullied .

Keep us posted.
 
With the value of the house at €220k and a possible inheritance sum of €200k then in theory there is enough money to fully clear the mortgage and leave €40,000 over. I'd be very careful in what I said to the bank.

The negative equity issue is something thousands of people are having to contend with across the country. Wouldn't many of them love to offer an amount in full & final settlement & walk away? But why would a bank allow that when someone is in or back in employment & can afford to pay their mortgage or indeed has access to a considerable lump sum inheritance? Negative equity is measured at a point in time but is fluid & does change.

The arrears & threat of legal action is more pressing than the negative equity. Patrickj has said he wants to stay there & pay down the arrears. Recapitalising the debt is surely an option and this is what he has to push for if he wants to stay in that particular house. The big issue is getting to talk to a decision-maker in ACC.

Without an agreement to recapitalise, then try offering an amount in full & final settlement if you can walk away freely. But that leaves you without a house, a bad credit rating & looking for somewhere to rent. But perhaps that is a preferable option that many people in negative equity would like to be in.
 
Without an agreement to recapitalise, then try offering an amount in full & final settlement if you can walk away freely. But that leaves you without a house, a bad credit rating & looking for somewhere to rent.
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Of course there are some potential downsides to doing a deal with any Bank. However, the main issue for the Creditor is the cost/benefit assessment. If the OP can agree a deal in this situation he will retain his house and the Bank will receive an immediate settlement for circa the house value. Banks are pragmatic and will certainly consider such a proposal.
 
No court will see you out of your home. Come on, how many people in your position are paying their full mortgage?
 
Hello again,

Since my last post I have had contact with a personal insolvency practitioner. They said their fee would be in the region of EURO 1,500.00 to deal directly with the bank and hopefully reach an agreement. I was anxious for them to begin negotiations immediately but they thought it best if I wrote to the bank one more time but this time be more firm than I had been in previous correspondences.

Firstly, I was to ask the bank to bring my case to the top of their repossession lists if they believed I was insolvent. This could have backfired but I went ahead and sent it to them.

Within days I was sent out a SFS to fill out, there was no mention of repossession this time, but they made it clear that I was not protected by MARP. They also said they would review my case again. Small steps but a massive change in tone for the better.
 
As I have said before, you are overindebted.

You are paying €17k interest a year on the mortgage.

House prices will have to rise by 70% before you are in positive equity.

You have been proactive in doing a deal. AIB or ptsb would do a split mortgage for you while ACC are just ignoring you.

You have been struggling honorably for many years, and it's not reasonable to expect you to continue struggling.

If ACC don't come back with a deal, then ask the PIP to propose a very short PIA along the following lines:

Mortgage written down to 110% of the value of the house
Contribution of €20,000 from your parents - not €200,000
Duration of PIA: 3 months.

If they refuse, go bankrupt. Your parents will be able to buy the house from the Official Assignee and you will be debt-free in three years.
 
Also Brendan, how long do you think I should wait on ACC to get back to me in response to my SFS?
 
I think you should probably pay interest only for the moment.

Tell them that you are building up the fees for the PIP and/or the cost of applying for bankruptcy.

From your account of the story, you have been struggling too long and they have not responded at all.

Brendan
 
Also Brendan, how long do you think I should wait on ACC to get back to me in response to my SFS? The PIP could not understand why I had been labelled a non cooperating customer to begin with.
 
PatrickJ said:
I would like to honour my debt and stay in my home but I am not one of these people who expect to stay in situ while not contributing.
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Can you confirm that the proposed inheritance from your parents is a good idea from their point of view. Also do you have any siblings who might not be happy about this?

It seems to me that you can afford your debts. Therefore I would take 60K from the parents, and repay the arrears. This means you are now a comfortable 800 Euro better off a month. I would than use 400 of that a month to over pay the mortgage to get down the NE.

I do not see why your bank should do any deal with you. I believe the honourable thing is to always pay one's debts. But in cases where this can not be done there is nothing wrong with going bankrupt etc.

You have a good income, an inheritance, presumable also a future inheritance, and maybe salary increases.

In life in relation to finances, it is better if at all possible to stand on one's own two feet. Sorting out the mess yourself is far better than the easy way out, which could lead to trouble down the road for those who don't learn from past mistakes. That's why taking 60K is far better than taking 200K from the parents. You never know but a day might come when both you and your parents are glad they didn't hand everything over now.
 
I too don't believe you are a candidate for bankruptcy or should be engaging with a PIP. You can clearly afford your mortgage. I don't believe ACC will be able to secure a repo. over your home if you are paying your bills like you say you are.
I agree with Bronte.
I would suggest you do not take such a large sum from your parents. I would also be hesitant to clear off the 60k arrears with your folks money. As they say cash is King and you are now well able to afford to pay back your arrears that accumulated when you were unemployed.
 
Hello,

To answer questions raised ; I have no other siblings but I have both decided and informed my parents that I will not be accepting their hard earned money and placing it against my debts. It all sounded great in theory but they both worked damn hard and I just don't believe it would be ethical of me to accept it from them.

I am back paying x amount off my arrears and of course sill making my monthly P&I repayment on all my payments going forth.

However, this is not good enough and no deal to recapitalize arrears is in place nor will be in place.

I know some of you disagree but I continue to stick my heels in and refuse to sell my home.

I am not protected under MARP so how long will it take for them to seek repossession.

Will I be frowned upon by the Courts or will my attempts to stay in a home be seen favorably?

Cheers,

Patrick
 
I don't see why the negative equity is a problem, unless you want to move house? If you can afford your mortgage then you can continue to live in the house.
Would you consider borrowing 60k from your parents and get the problem of the arrears settled? You can then pay back your parents when you're in a position to do so.
Would renting out a room in your house be an option? Just to get in some extra cash to get you back on your feet.
 
Folks, an offer has been put on the table. I'm completely illiterate when it comes to interest rates etc so any input would be great please:

Remaining mtg: €380,000
Substantial arrears: €60,000
I pay my mortgage in full each month.

Offer from bank:
Recapitalize arrears which brings the over all debt up to 440k on a current house value 220k
Pay debt off within the original time frame. No elongating of mortgage duration which will increase the monthly repayment to €2200 per month
I presume this includes the interest on the arrears.
 
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I just re-read all of your posts. Brendan is correct - you're over indebted. 2200 per month is madness!!! What happens when interest rates start to rise? Offer to sell the house on behalf of the bank and then offer full and final lump sum of approx 20,000 towards the shortfall. In time, use your inheritance towards purchasing another property. I don't see any point in paying another penny to the bank.
 
epicaricacy said:
I just re-read all of your posts. Brendan is correct - you're over indebted. 2200 per month is madness!!! What happens when interest rates start to rise? Offer to sell the house on behalf of the bank and then offer full and final lump sum of approx 20,000 towards the shortfall. In time, use your inheritance towards purchasing another property. I don't see any point in paying another penny to the bank.
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Hi Epicaricacy, Brendan's wise words have came back to haunt me! The bank have not offered any great deal but have merely but a plan in place that suits them.

You could call it the usual Irish attitude but I do feel an attachment to the house and would really like to stay put but I realize the inevitable is only around the corner.

I also forgot to mention that they believe I can afford the 2,200 per month.
 
Over the coming days I will be meeting with a PIP to arrange a sale of my home. I'm more than saddened to say the least. I've done all I can and more. Only yesterday I paid another large amount of cash off the mortgage.

With sound advise on this forum and very helpful PMs I realise I've been defeated and am only flogging a dead horse at this stage. If the interest rates are to rise I will be in serious trouble.

I'm not living in a mansion but in an estate beside a council estate. The property I'm in is ex council so no mansion and hardly warrants a repayment of 2200 per month.

I'm gutted to say the least. I'm man enough to admit that I sat and bawled my eyes out last night; sitting looking at the work I'd done with my bare hands to see it all whether away but I suppose that's the price of the game.
 
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