How we view international news; double standards

Purple said:
Yes, and that's all there is to it.
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Yes, so widespread public support can have influence on political affairs, can it not?
Btw, I think it is the evangelical Christians that also believe in the establishment of Israel, as precursor to the return of Christ, that hold most sway. This religious faction I think is now the largest religious faction in the US - although I stand to be corrected on that.

Purple said:
So there is no lobbying or dark influencing, just a public support for Israel, based on the geopolitical factors in the region. On that we can agree.
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Of course there is lobbying! All political systems have lobbyists. Whether it is "dark" or not, depends on what you think of lobbying.
From my perspective, the US political system is wide open to influence from the wealthiest of donors.
So with broadbased support for Israel amongst population, with Jewish Orthodox advisors in the administration, it is clear to me that Israel has a greater influence over US political affairs than Russia does.
 
Okay, so the reason that Israel is supported by the USA is because a majority of the American public support Israel and that is reflected amongst their democratically elected representatives.
Russia is seeking to influence, and has influenced, American policy and their elections through secret and underhand means.

Do you understand the difference?
 
Purple said:
Okay, so the reason that Israel is supported by the USA is because a majority of the American public support Israel and that is reflected amongst their democratically elected representatives.
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Well 'majority' would be stretching it a bit. But a significant portion of 'Red States' would hold views of Israeli preference.
But im glad now that you see how the Israeli government can use this support to influence US political affairs.
That combined with wealthy pro-Israeli lobbyists inside and outside of the US administration.

Purple said:
Russia is seeking to influence, and has influenced, American policy and their elections through secret and underhand means. [/QUOTE]

Yes thats what we keep hearing about. I haven't seen anything to back it up, have you?
Instead, as I recall the US has imposed economic sanctions against Russians, some of which were imposed by Trump.
Instead, 60 Russian diplomats were expelled from US on foot of the Skirpal poisoning, allegedly by Russia.

Perhaps they are trying to influence US policy, why wouldn't they? Israel does it, we try it with our "undocumented" workers.
And seeing as Russians are the second largest ethnic group in the US, why wouldn't they try exert some influence?
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However I see you have your tin foil hat on...secret and underhand means...you are the little conspiratorial theorist arent you?
 
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TheBigShort said:
But im glad now that you see how the Israeli government can use this support to influence US political affairs.
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You still don't get it, do you?
The people of the USA support Israel and her policies. That's why the US government supports Israel and her policies. That's all. Without broad based support from the public lobbyists etc would have no power.
Personally I disagree with the stance of the USA and their blanket vetoing of UN declarations etc. but that's what the AMerican people want.

TheBigShort said:
However I see you have your tin foil hat on...secret and underhand means...you are the little conspiratorial theorist arent you?
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Every Intelligence Service in the USA, many of whom are at odds with their President, as well as Social media companies such as Facebook, have stated that Russia sought to influence their last Presidential election through illegal means. Do you know something that they don't?
 
Purple said:
The people of the USA support Israel and her policies. That's why the US government supports Israel and her policies. That's all.
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Thats a bit simple to be honest. While most Americans look favourably on Israel, most of them are not busy on the policy detail - like everyone else, most people take their que from their political leaders. So if Trump says scrapping the Iranian deal is good, then supporters of Trump and Israel thinks it's a good idea.
If Obama thinks the Iranian deal was good, then supporters of Obama and Israel thinks it's good.
In the end its all about power and influence.
In my view, Israel exerts more power and influence over US policy than Russia does.

Purple said:
Every Intelligence Service in the USA, many of whom are at odds with their President, as well as Social media companies such as Facebook, have stated that Russia sought to influence their last Presidential election through illegal means. Do you know something that they don't?
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Good God, you really have bought into it. Social media is full of fake accounts, from ALL nationalities.
If I go on Twitter it doesn't take long to find an account that is pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian, or pro-UI or pro-UK or anything else for that matter.
I have no idea who is behind these accounts and I have no idea if they bear any influence.
Even Trumps twitter handle is 'therealdonaldtrump' because there are so many fake Trump accounts out there.
Buying advertising is not illegal. Why cant Russians in American buy advertising that supports one candidate over another?
Do you think US Intelligence agencies dont do the same in other countries?

At the end of the day, what good are all these intelligence agencies, what good is all that money for political donations, what good is all that lobbying, if some FB ads can thwart the whole electoral system!

It is farce, it is beyond reason, that ads on FB can unduly influence the electorate.
What about TV ads.
According to this, pro- Clinton groups made up 75% of TV ads. Who are these people, where did they get their money from? Are any of them Russian?

https://www.publicintegrity.org/201...ored-75-percent-tv-ads-2016-presidential-race

All politics is dirty,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-it-true-truth-explained-obama-a8030116.html
 
TheBigShort said:
Thats a bit simple to be honest. While most Americans look favourably on Israel, most of them are not busy on the policy detail - like everyone else, most people take their que from their political leaders. So if Trump says scrapping the Iranian deal is good, then supporters of Trump and Israel thinks it's a good idea.
If Obama thinks the Iranian deal was good, then supporters of Obama and Israel thinks it's good.
In the end its all about power and influence.
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So you think that the electorate is too stupid to distinguish between the individual and the policy and just blindly follow their leader? It's a good thing that you are too clever to fall for that.
... and you're the one talking about others being simplistic!

TheBigShort said:
In my view, Israel exerts more power and influence over US policy than Russia does.
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The issue is whether Russia is doing so illegally.

TheBigShort said:
Good God, you really have bought into it. Social media is full of fake accounts, from ALL nationalities.
If I go on Twitter it doesn't take long to find an account that is pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian, or pro-UI or pro-UK or anything else for that matter.
I have no idea who is behind these accounts and I have no idea if they bear any influence.
Even Trumps twitter handle is 'therealdonaldtrump' because there are so many fake Trump accounts out there.
Buying advertising is not illegal. Why cant Russians in American buy advertising that supports one candidate over another?
Do you think US Intelligence agencies dont do the same in other countries?

At the end of the day, what good are all these intelligence agencies, what good is all that money for political donations, what good is all that lobbying, if some FB ads can thwart the whole electoral system!

It is farce, it is beyond reason, that ads on FB can unduly influence the electorate.
What about TV ads.
According to this, pro- Clinton groups made up 75% of TV ads. Who are these people, where did they get their money from? Are any of them Russian?

https://www.publicintegrity.org/201...ored-75-percent-tv-ads-2016-presidential-race

All politics is dirty,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-it-true-truth-explained-obama-a8030116.html
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Have a read of this.
 
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Purple said:
Have a reda of this.
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Thanks for that, that gave me a good laugh.

I like this bit

"This is another demonstration of the fact that the Russians aren’t really pursuing partisan attacks, they are pursuing attacks that they perceive in their own national self-interest,"

And there was me starting to think, ok, the Russians are up to no good - but at least they would be fair about it!

Then I was thinking, isnt China, North Korea, Iran up to no-good hacking? And sure enough true to form I clicked into another link - Microsoft report.

"the current national security adviser, John R. Bolton, suggested that Russia was not the only threat in the fall elections. He also named China, Iran and North Korea — the other most active cyberoperators among state adversaries — as threats."

But somewhat sadly,

"Microsoft hasnt found any evidence linking these other countries"

I dont doubt that there is espionage, hacking, fake news - but this is nothing new. The US has been spying on Germany, the Brits were eavesdropping our phonecalls.

And who could forget the elephant in the room - British based Cambridge Analytica who worked for both Trump and Leave campaign.
Or the rigging of the Democratic primary elections that put Clinton forward instead of Sanders.
Shush!! Best to let those ones pass on by! Keep shouting 'Russia, Russia, Russia!'
Actually its quite eery the amount of coverage the NY times is given all this Russia stuff, them and CNN.
You'd be forgiven for thinking they were being fed info from the same intelligence services that gave them WMD.
 
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