How to approach a Roundabout (multi lane)

[higgins]

Re: Roundabout Approach

To do this however, you effectively have to cross over the outside lane, with the strong possibility that there is another car already in the outside lane who is not taking that exit, especially on a busy roundabout. You can't stop on the roundabout to wait for a space to exit....

If you are all going the same speed then no car would come onto the roundabout at 9o'clock and therefore there would be no car there at 12 or 3 when you get off ?

If you enter at 6 and get off at 3 you need to use the right hand lane.

Those cars waiting at 9 to come on should allow you pass (on the inside lane) before coming onto the roundabout even if they have no intention of using the inside lane.

As your passing they should roll out onto the roundabout and be that bit behind you all the way round so as you don't cut them off when exiting.

If there are idiots coming onto the outside lane at 9 and going faster then you are on the inside then you will have a problem but if everyine sticks to the rules it works!

 

[Thirsty]

Dearie me, what a kerfuffle.....

If you are on a two lane roundabout, and are on the inside lane, at some point you have to change lanes to the outside lane in order to take your exit - are we all agreed on that?

Ideally you would change lanes just before your exit; however there is every possibility that the outside lane will not be free. Let's say you go around again - if you see a gap into which you can move on the outside lane - you will take it even if you are not at your exit yet.

If you are on the inside lane on a busy roundabout, traffic coming on to the roundabout seems to be convinced that because you are on the inside lane, you are not taking the next exit - regardless of the fact that you are indicating your intention to do so. If you are in the outside lane, they are far less likely to pull out in front of you.

 

[dontaskme]

Re: Roundabout Approach

AFAIK...


For single lane roads approaching and exiting a 2 lane roundabout:


if you intend exiting the roundabout at 12 o clock (straight through - 2nd
exit), I think that you may be in either the left or right hand lane upon entering the roundabout (but I personally would recommend that you always enter and exit in the left lane in this case) if however you find
yourself forced to enter in the right lane, you will be required to filter into the left hand lane before exiting the roundabout.

This depends on the road markings as I found out in Mallow.

Travelling north on the Cork road toward the roundabout to the south of the entrance to the driving test centre, if you want to go straight on (to the test centre) you have to be in the left hand lane as the right hand lane is marked for right turn only.

 

[morpheus]

If you are on the inside lane on a busy roundabout, traffic coming on to the roundabout seems to be convinced that because you are on the inside lane, you are not taking the next exit - regardless of the fact that you are indicating your intention to do so. If you are in the outside lane, they are far less likely to pull out in front of you.

Yes but instead of alleviating an existing problem, you are now adding to it. you are now travelling around the roundabout in the wrong lane preventing others from exiting.

If you cant solve a problem, become one with it?

 

[paddi22]

If you are on the inside lane on a busy roundabout, traffic coming on to the roundabout seems to be convinced that because you are on the inside lane, you are not taking the next exit - regardless of the fact that you are indicating your intention to do so. If you are in the outside lane, they are far less likely to pull out in front of you.

Its insane that you are even defending this point.
My friend was in a serious accident due to someone crashing into him, someone who should have been exiting at the same exit paralel to him but instead cut across him. Your behaviour doesn't let drivers exit at the second exit safely.

 

[Marie]

Agree absolutely! I am still getting over my shock at the original post. In every road-situation including roundabouts there are established "Rules of the Road" which must be known and must be within a driver's ability and competence before they get behind the wheel of a car! Anything less is extremely dangerous to self and others.

When approaching a roundabout you have to plan ahead well in advance. Depending on where you are going you LOOK IN YOUR MIRROR, SIGNAL, THEN MANOEUVRE to indicate to traffic coming behind you and beside you of your intention. IF ALL IS CLEAR and depending on WHERE YOU ARE GOING you get in the appropriate lane as you approach the roundabout (please note.........NOT when you reach or are already on the roundabout!!!!)

Entering a roundabout YOU GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC COMING FROM YOUR RIGHT - i.e. seen through your RIGHT-HAND WINDOW! If there is a vehicle approaching from your right you remain behind the solid white marking until all traffic approaching from your right has passed. That applies whether you are approaching the roundabout in the left lane (to exit first left) or in the right lane (to exit at 12 - ahead - or at 3 - to your right off the roundabout). You are therefore in lane right from the start and throughout the manoeuvre through the roundabout.

If you are going through the roundabout from the right-hand approach lane to exit ahead (12 o'clock) or to your right (3 o'clock) you drive onto the roundabout and go round on the inside. If you are going ahead (12 o'clock) then you use your LEFT-HAND MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE to move left when you have passed the left-hand exit (9 o'clock) and IF CLEAR move into that lane and exit in the left-hand lane off the roundabout.

I don't understand all this stuff about "they won't let me". If not only the OP but every other driver doesn't understand these fundamental road-rules then every time they drive they are effectively playing Russian roulette with their own lives and those of others.

In addition to getting this advice on AAM I strongly suggest the OP immediately books half-a-dozen driving-lessons with a reputable driving-instructor.

 

[Marie]

Yes but instead of alleviating an existing problem, you are now adding to it. you are now travelling around the roundabout in the wrong lane preventing others from exiting.

If you cant solve a problem, become one with it?

Morpheus - see my response above. They know you are moving to your left to come off the roundabout at the next exit because you have looked in your mirror and have given the signal that you are moving over to your left to exit.

Because they, too, are (presumably!!!!) observing the "give way to traffic from your right on a roundabout" they should be allowing you move over.

Oh dear God.............

 

[Marie]

Roundabout Approach

This depends on the road markings as I found out in Mallow.

Travelling north on the Cork road toward the roundabout to the south of the entrance to the driving test centre, if you want to go straight on (to the test centre) you have to be in the left hand lane as the right hand lane is marked for right turn only.

This is a particular case, and of course road-markings and directions on specific junctions indicate what you should - specifically - do there!

 

[Froggie]

There are lots of badly designed roundabouts where you either follow local signs specific to that case or use your better judgement, the problem occurs where some inconsiderate drivers choose to use their judgement to benefit their own ends. The priority should be for rules and safety, not for speed and self benefit.

 

[Thirsty]

They know you are moving to your left to come off the roundabout at the next exit because you have looked in your mirror and have given the signal that you are moving over to your left to exit.

You would hope that would be the case, unfortunately however it often isn’t.

get in the appropriate lane as you approach the roundabout

Many roundabouts are incorrectly marked. The N4/M50 junction (though it may be fixed by now) used to have a lane marked as N4 prior to the roundabout which became M50 on the roundabout.

Its insane that you are even defending this point.

I don’t believe I was defending anything – I was pointing out the realities of what is to be found on our roads every day.

My friend was in a serious accident due to someone crashing into him, someone who should have been exiting at the same exit paralel to him but instead cut across him. Your behaviour doesn't let drivers exit at the second exit safely.

From the observations made above, on a two lane roundabout, you must change lanes (or cross) into the outside lane in order to make your exit. If you are already in the outside lane how have you ‘cut across’ someone?

putting others in danger

It has already been established that in order to exit the roundabout, you must change lanes into the outside lane to take your exit. Yes, I agree changing lanes is a manouvore that has to be done carefully, but hardly putting others in danger?

 

[John_DI]

Hi,

OK, being explained clearly and comprehensively by morpheus, marie and others but may I add emphasis to one point.

That is the "exiting from the inside lane" bit.

The new "Rules of the Road" have a more detailed explanation on the use of roundabouts.

The Dept of Transport have added to the explanation,

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

* traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit

Suppose a vehicle on the inside lane wishes to exit at 3 o'clock. At 12 o'clock, he checks his mirrors, blind spot, indicates, and if clear crosses and exits.

If his exit has more than one lane he takes the left-most lane, if that lane is occupied by a vehicle leaving at that exit, he exits using the other, overtaking lane.

Problems arise If there is only one exit lane and there is a car exiting at same time.

The car on the outside lane should allow the car from the inside to cross in front and exit.

Why:-
1. Basic traffic rule, Traffic to the right has the right of way
2. It says so in the new Rules of the Road.
3. Common courtesy, considerate driving. If the outside car does not yield, they condemn the other vehicle to either circle the roundabout or else, slow down to follow them off. This leaves the car from the inside lane in a vulnerable position - sitting cross-ways in a roundabout.
4. Most important reason of all. Self preservation. The reason that "Traffic to the right" has the right of way is because a person can clearly see traffic to his/her right.

For a vehicle to see all traffic to their left, they must look through and back through their car, which could be filled with shopping, kids, dogs, grannies whatever, it could have very small side back windows, or it could be a van, so could have a massive blind spot.

Or, quite a few people have either never heard of blind spots or if they have do not believe they exist.

So, traffic on the outside should yield to vehicles exiting simply because the inside vehicle could be totally oblivious to their presence, and they will get clobbered for their pigheaded attitude.

As mentioned earlier posts, if there is a car driving past the 3 o'clock position, (provided they followed the rules), they can only have entered the roundabout at 12 o'clock. As they entered, they will have seen the car on the inside lane, and they must give priority to this traffic. So, no problem

Final point. The vehicle exiting from the inside does not have the "Right of Way" to drive in front of the car on the outside lane. Nobody in any situation has the right to cross into a lane and force the vehicle in that lane ot slow and/or stop.

But the outside vehicle should yield to the vehicle that he can clearly see wishes to exit. Usually just a simple matter of easing off the gas. Should cause no problem.

 

[paddi22]

From the observations made above, on a two lane roundabout, you must change lanes (or cross) into the outside lane in order to make your exit. If you are already in the outside lane how have you ‘cut across’ someone?

I might be getting your point completely wrong but from your original post I got the impression that (if you look at the attached pic in the link)



you are the red car in it, but instead of exiting at that second junction as the red car is doing, that you would instead travel around to the next exit, cutting across the blue car trying to exit.

 

[Happy_Harry]

Rules of the Road (updated version as well as older version) clearly state :

The following should also be noted carefully:

• Treat the roundabout as a normal junction which means you yield right of way to traffic approaching on the roundabout.
• IF LEAVING BY THE FIRST EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane signalling a left turn and proceed to leave the roundabout at that exit.
• IF LEAVING BY THE SECOND EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane but do not signal until you have passed the first exit then signal a left turn and leave at the next exit.
• IF LEAVING BY ANY SUBSEQUENT EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the right hand lane signalling a right turn. Keep in the right hand lane (i.e. the lane next to the centre). As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit.

Left approach lane for 9 and 12 o'clock, Right approach lane for 3 o'clock.

Just to be clear this means : NO right approach lane for 12 o'clock exit

How come there are so many drivers taking the right approach lane for a 12 o'clock exit ? Of course no problem if the roundabout exits in 2 lanes (this is also specified in the new rules of the road), but there is a big problem if the roundabout exits in 1 lane.

 

[jmayo]

Thanks Happy_Harry, I thought there were no rules for roundabouts in Ireland or you just make them up as you go along.

Come to think of it, I have seen a few people using those indicator thingies but I thought they were just to make the car look pretty for Christmas.

I just love it when you beep at a car that cut across you or barges in front of you and they give you a finger salute and it's not always from men either.
Ireland of the welcomes how are ye.

By the way does anybody know if we are changing to now drive on the right ?
If you take the M50 (when there is no traffic approx between 02:00 and 05:30 am), the Nass road, or the M4/N4 to Mullingar it appears everyone now drives in the right lane.
I remember being told you were just to overtake on this lane and then move in for faster oncoming traffic, but I guess we have different motorway rules to other countries.

 

[Marie]

Yes that's right! Statistically the most dangerous and notorious roads in the EU and very high fatality figures per capita.

 

[Thirsty]

re Paddi2's link: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-sa...ndabout-02.jpg

This shows a 2 lane roundabout w. a 2 lane exit, so if you are on the inside lane you don't have a problem making your exit; if you are exiting into 1 lane from a 2 lane roundabout - you effectively have to cross the outside lane to get to your exit.

 

[micamaca]

I was in the outside lane on the roundabout last week, and just as I was exiting at 12, I saw a car to my right on the inside lane was also intending to exit at 12. I slowed down but since I was already ahead of her on the outside lane, I thought it made more sense for me to get out of her way as we were exiting onto one lane. I suppose I was surprised to see her exiting there as everyone (except her!) exits at 3 if they are in the inside lane. She's the first one I've seen in 10 months of living here do that...maybe she was a tourist...and of course she has the right.

But can I just check from what you're saying, if there are two of us exiting from this roundabout into a single lane, and we are neck and neck...I have to let the person on the inside lane out first. Have I got that right?

She gave me a bit of a fright, as I realised that I had got so comfortable with everyone else exiting at 3, it never occurred to me that someone else would exit at 12! Dangerous stuff... hate roundabouts. they really are like russian roulette. Especially hate the one at the Pavillions Swords.. if you're coming from the N1 Belfast direction into the Pavillions, there are five exits on the roundabout, and three lanes, two into Swords and one back around...and I look and check like crazy everytime before I move from the inside lane but there is always someone who is not yielding to me on the roundabout so when I try to change lane, they're pretty much accelerating into that lane already. And as I'm on the roundabout, they should be yielding to me. Hate it, it really frightens me!

 

[AllanJ]

I was in the outside lane on the roundabout last week, and just as I was exiting at 12, I saw a car to my right on the inside lane was also intending to exit at 12. I slowed down but since I was already ahead of her on the outside lane, I thought it made more sense for me to get out of her way as we were exiting onto one lane. if there are two of us exiting from this roundabout into a single lane, and we are neck and neck...I have to let the person on the inside lane out first. Have I got that right? !

I am not sure who is right, but I disagree.

You are in the outside (left) lane headed towards a single lane exit. If the driver in the inside lane has the right of way into that exit, that means your lane comes to an end and that should not be true given that the other driver has two other choices, the left lane continuing around and the right lane continuing around.

It makes absolutely no sense to give the inside driver three choices and the outside driver none.

Let's translate the situation into a simplified non-roundabout situation. We have a T intersection with two lanes coming up from 6 o'clock, a single through lane (12) and a right turn (3). It does not make sense that the right lane "normally has the right of way" into 12 o'clock.

To do this however, you effectively have to cross over the outside lane, with the strong possibility that there is another car already in the outside lane who is not taking that exit, especially on a busy roundabout. You can't stop on the roundabout to wait for a space to exit....

And in regards to your 'under no circumstances....', when faced with a very busy roundabout this is exactly what I will do; otherwise I can pretty much guarantee that I won't be able to exit at the correct point as there will be traffic in the outside lane and I'll have to go around again and get into the outside lane at any point that I can.

Using the example of coming past 9 o'clock and wishing to exit at 3, actually prepare to move left at 12 or even 11:30 (after passing the exit there). This is one example of a "reaction to complexity" i.e. simplifying what appears to be a complex situation. IMHO there is nothing wrong with moving to the left at 11:30 or 1 o'clock before someone who "might" conflict with you by trying to continue around at 3 when you are trying to exit starts to pull abreast.

Heck I could even start filtering over to the left as early as 10 since I will arrive at 12 before someone originally behind me in the right lane can overtake and cause a conflict trying to exit at 12 while I continue around to 3.

Travel tips:
[broken link removed]

 

[paddi22]

micamaca, i agree with you about that pavillions roundabout. Its a nightmare when its busy if you are coming from the belfast direction and trying to turn into the pavillions.

 

[micamaca]

I think the best thing I can do is be on Red Alert everytime I enter a roundabout.

Even if you're heeding all the rules, there's usually someone else who isn't. Even a simple indicator is too much trouble for a good number of people. And then you have those who indicate incorrectly, which is worse.

Red Alert for me from now on.

Paddi, I usually head to the Pavilions at 4.30...not many people going in at that time at the weekend, so less dodging cars to be had!

m