How many landlords have quit because of rent controls?

[Steven Barrett]

Just musing....
Is airbnb really the panacea for all ills?
What's the average stay?A couple of days?
Then cleaning laundry greeting new guests etc.Then maybe a few days empty till the next weekend.
While for most landlords,a tenant on a long lease is almost a passive investment.
Just my 2c this find Friday morning!

People and landlords get rated on airbnb. It's human nature that people don't want others to think badly of them, especially if you want to use it again. There is the additional cost of having the place cleaned more regularly and laundry etc but if your income is much higher too, it's just a cost of business.

 

[T McGibney]

Secondly, the tax treatment and level of tax applied to turnover and profit has reduced the attractiveness of this business. USC is partially applied to rental cashflow for non institutional landlords. I am not aware of any other non VAT registered business that pays a percentage of tax on turnover and such a punitive level of tax on profit. Additionally, businesses that require their employees to essentially work for free would not have any employees. There is no effective mechanism that allows for a landlord's time and travel in servicing a BTL. For example, a tenant calls reporting a problem with a washing machine. The landlord has to travel to the property to establish if its really a problem with the equipment or tenant finger trouble. Possible call a repair or service agent, again meet the agent at the property and pay for that person's time and assessment. Possibly go shopping for a replacement machine, arrange delivery/collection. Travel back to the property, take out the old equipment, wait around for the delivery service and connect the new machine.... none of the landlords time and travel expenses are allowable under revenue rules. What other business would expect their employees to travel and work for free ?

While I share your general sentiments, I'm puzzled by the 2 points highlighted.

USC is applied on net rental income before capital allowances, not on turnover.

And no business sector enjoys a tax deduction for owner's time and labour committed to a business.

 

[Alistair]

Not correct, a portion of USC is applied to gross rent.

All business owners (and employees) have a revenue approved mechanism for deducting reasonable expenses incurred during the course of executing their employment obligations.

 

[PaxmanK]

Hi Alistair,
You have summed it up very well there.
We were trying to decide should be do airbnb , sell up and stay out, or sell up and buy I another country where the treatment might be better.

If you don't mind answering, which other countries have you relocated your property investments to? And in which ways are they friendlier to the investor than Ireland ?

 

[odyssey06]

If you are thinking about Air BnB, you should read Minister Murphy's latest proposals:
http://www.thejournal.ie/airbnb-regulations-ireland-4223316-Sep2018/

He told TheJournal.ie at the Fine Gael think-in yesterday that proposed regulations, which he plans to bring to Cabinet shortly, will be very similar to ones introduced in Toronto. In September, [broken link removed] introduced new laws which ensure a person can only rent their home as a short-term let if it is their principal residence. This means that people who own a second property (what some call an investment property) https://signaltoronto.com/10-things-know-proposed-short-term-rentals-policy/ (will not be able to rent) it for a period of less than 28 days at a time.
The rules in Toronto also stipulate that short-term rental companies and home owners must obtain a licence and register with the city council. Those that place their properties on platforms must also pay a Municipal Accommodation Tax (MAT) of 4%. Vancouver, which introduced similar rules, said since the regulations kicked in the number of listings on Airbnb fell from 6,600 in April to 3,742.

 

[cremeegg]

Put the property up for sale, I will buy it and let it out. I will slash the rent by 50% offering decent accommodation at affordable prices that provide tenants a real alternative to home ownership (whether they can afford it or not, they now have a choice).

If you buy the property at a price that covers the building cost including site servicing costs, plus a reasonable site cost, plus the local authority costs, plus professional fees, plus financial costs. You will not get sufficient income to repay a mortgage over 25 Years.

I bet you I can find tenants that will appreciate the property and look after it.

That's easy, even at full market price. Most tenants are great.

However there is a small chance, that you will get a bad tenant. If you are unfortunate enough to get a tenant who will not pay the rent, there is very little you can do about it. That is the problem, landlords have.

 

[TheBigShort]

Landlords are leaving rather than entering the market. Ever wonder why?

Landlords dont build houses. They compete with FTB's pricing them out of market, turning them into tenants. They then extract a rent that covers the cost of the mortgage plus profit.
This is a market failure. It is a policy failure.

 

[TheBigShort]

There are plenty of ex rental properties for sale on MyHome.ie so you can purchase them and rent them out at a rate you feel is appropriate.

Thanks, I know. Increasing the supply these 'ex rental' properties will help with the affordability for FTB's.

 

[T McGibney]

Not correct, a portion of USC is applied to gross rent.

Source please.

All business owners (and employees) have a revenue approved mechanism for deducting reasonable expenses incurred during the course of executing their employment obligations.

It was your mention of landlords time being allowable that I actually queried.

none of the landlords time ....are allowable under revenue rules.

 

[TheBigShort]

If you buy the property at a price that covers the building cost including site servicing costs, plus a reasonable site cost, plus the local authority costs, plus professional fees, plus financial costs. You will not get sufficient income to repay a mortgage over 25 Years.

I know, I will have to cover the difference myself.
Your cost list above is the whole point. The current private buy-to-let is effectively a ponzi scheme. Landlords competing with FTBs, pushing up prices turning them into tenants only then to extract the cost of the house (plus obtain a profit) from the same people they have squeezed out of the market.
Not being allowed to charge market rates is their complaint.

That's easy, even at full market price. Most tenants are great.

However there is a small chance, that you will get a bad tenant.

So its not a big issue then?

If you are unfortunate enough to get a tenant who will not pay the rent, there is very little you can do about it. That is the problem, landlords have.

True, I can sympathize with a landlord who is in that position, but as you said there is only a small chance it will happen. So it hardly explains why so many are apparently leaving the sector.

 

[odyssey06]

However there is a small chance, that you will get a bad tenant. If you are unfortunate enough to get a tenant who will not pay the rent, there is very little you can do about it. That is the problem, landlords have.

This is probably a bigger issue than rent controls in terms of impact on people not bringing properties onto the rental market, especially where a home is idle due to someone working abroad for X period or receiving long term nursing home care.

 

[cremeegg]

True, I can sympathize with a landlord who is in that position, [with a tenant who does not pay the rent] but as you said there is only a small chance it will happen. So it hardly explains why so many are apparently leaving the sector.

Only a small chance it will happen, but the consequences will be disastrous, and there is nothing you can but endure.

All business have problems, but a serious problem you can do nothing about, that puts people off.

 

[odyssey06]

True, I can sympathize with a landlord who is in that position, but as you said there is only a small chance it will happen. So it hardly explains why so many are apparently leaving the sector.

If you are a landlord with a single property, the chance of it occurring may be low but in terms of impact it is a 'black swan event' which not just leads to landlords selling up but people opting not to let out properties. You can't insure against it or absorb the costs in a way a letting company with 20+ properties can.

 

[T McGibney]

All business have problems, but a serious problem you can do nothing about, that puts people off.

+1
And most property owners are not business people and they tend to have a generally higher aversion to risk than a business person would have.

 

[TheBigShort]

Only a small chance it will happen, but the consequences will be disastrous, and there is nothing you can but endure.

Yes, I agree. But as you said it is only a small chance of it happening.
It doesn't account for the apparent exodus.

 

[qwerty5]

Well the exodus isn't just down to one reason.
All these small reasons add up together to make it unattractive
There are other places to invest without the hassle or risk.

(I'm not an ex landlord, I was a potential one though. When I did the sums properly I just didn't get into it)

 

[odyssey06]

Yes, I agree. But as you said it is only a small chance of it happening. It doesn't account for the apparent exodus.

You seem to have difficulty with the concept that it doesn't have to actually happen to them for it to cause people to think twice about being a landlord?

If you couldn't insure a car, wouldn't it make you think twice about buying one?

 

[Delboy]

The sooner the fly-by-night landlord is gone, the better.

And how are those large institutional landlords working out?
You know the ones that evict whole blocks for 'enhancements' and then put the accomm back on the market at much higher rates. The same ones that pay practically no tax and funnel their profits out of the country.

 

[T McGibney]

And how are those large institutional landlords working out?
You know the ones that evict whole blocks for 'enhancements' and then put the accomm back on the market at much higher rates. The same ones that pay practically no tax and funnel their profits out of the country.

And who lobby surreptitiously for rent controls.

 

[The Horseman]

Landlords dont build houses. They compete with FTB's pricing them out of market, turning them into tenants. They then extract a rent that covers the cost of the mortgage plus profit.
This is a market failure. It is a policy failure.

how is this relevant to landlords leaving the market?

Competition results in a market!